All the seating and cargo capacity of a motorcycle, with the visibility of a car! There's no way in hell I'd split lanes on that thing; when I'm on my motorcycle, I have no obstructions and can see all around me, and definitely know where the edges of my bike are. This looks like a low-slung claustrophobic nightmare.
As I understand it, lane splitting is illegal in many U.S. states, but is considered lawful in California (though there is no law for or against it... it is simply "allowed"). I might be wrong but I thought the main justification for lane splitting was due to the air-cooled aspect of motorcycles and the harm that can come from sitting in stalled/slow traffic (although, where I live I see this get abused everyday by motorcycles that just want to go faster than the cars around them). Being electric, this vehicle would not have that cooling problem and would have less need for lane splitting. Not being able to lane split would not be a significant negative to me.
Being two wheeled it will be classified as a motorcycle (at least here in California.. don't know if that is everywhere). Being a motorcycle gets you other privileges besides lane splitting like being in the HOV lanes and (in some places) special parking.
I split lanes (San Francisco) to avoid being rear ended by an inattentive driver. The safest place to be is between 2 cars at a red light. Of course I like going faster than all the cars around me and I can get a block or two ahead of everyone by cruising up to the front of the queue. There is a safe way to split lanes - do not go more than 5-10 MPH faster than the cars, and watch for gaps because a car will change lanes unexpectedly to fill those gaps.
I like the idea of the vehicle in the article mainly for these reasons: more throughput on the roads (every car has only one passenger) and fuel efficiency. I would like to see a world where people commuted in these and only used the SUV for bigger trips.
True, not every lane splitter is unsafe. In stopped traffic, getting to the front of the line on red (thus out in front on green) is probably the safest. I'm talking about the people zipping in and out of 50mph traffic on 580. I see it everyday.
I split lanes (San Francisco) to avoid being rear ended by an inattentive driver.
Isn't that statistically the least likely way of getting hit on a two-wheeled vehicle? Drivers may be distracted, but even the most inattentive look in front of them.
It's more than that. Between myself and my girlfriend, both 100% powered two wheeler riders, the only times we've been hit by cars was rear-ending - my girlfriend twice, me only once. The typical situation is a junction; looking to make sure the way is clear, the car driver - for whatever reason - expects you to have already pulled away, and they pull away while not looking ahead, and instead looking for approaching traffic in the stream they're pulling out into.
When you're on two wheels, what you want is space. Space in front of you, space behind you, and ideally space on either side. Space gives you time to react to the unexpected. One of the most dangerous situations to be in is having a car tailgating you; in that case, if anything bad happens, you die. (I don't feel guilty about speeding, filtering at higher speeds, etc., to get away from a dangerous tailgater, and into a situation where they can overtake safely.)
The easiest way to make space for yourself in the urban environment - i.e. one with traffic lights - is to filter to the front and use your acceleration power to get a lead on the traffic when the lights turn green. The idea is that you can largely stay ahead of the cars until the next traffic light. If traffic starts to bunch up, you don't want to get caught in an ever-decreasing amount of space; ideally, you want to move, safely, towards increasing space, overtaking and filtering if necessary to do so.
I've come to understand there is a difference between "filtering" and "lane splitting". 100% on board with filtering to the front when traffic is stopped at a light. It is the weaving in and out of traffic that is still moving at a good clip that bothers me. When I'm driving in 40mph traffic it is quite unsettling to suddenly encounter a vehicle moving in between other vehicles at 50mph.
Well... this is being developed in Alameda, CA... so in one of a few US states that even allow lane splitting. Just like a lot of European cars never make it to the US, this may never make it out of the US. So to completely discount it because it can't/shouldn't do what is not really allowed in the vast majority of the most likely market seems like just looking for a reason to hate on it. If lane splitting is the best way to reduce traffic around here then we're all screwed.
Since there is no law on the books that really defined the "rules" of lane splitting, back when I drove a classic Mini I often wondered what would happen if I just started driving in between cars that I knew I could fit between. I suspect I'd be getting tickets for that. So bikes are allowed to do it for what ever reason. I wonder what a biker would think if I just pulled up along side them on the freeway. I suspect they would not be keen on that. But I wasn't trying to debate the merits or legality of lane splitting... just that "not able to lane split" is not a very compelling argument against this vehicle (at least for me anyway).
A good motorcyclist would not allow you to pull up along side them in their lane. When riding normally, we take up an entire lane by riding in the middle, to prevent people from thinking "Oh, that motorcyclist is at the edge of the lane, that means I can try and use the rest of the lane to pass".
Lane splitting is an exception, and a pretty hair-raising one at times because people are constantly jockeying to get into the next lane over which looks faster, without signaling. And then there are the people who actively attempt to prevent lane-splitting, by pulling onto the line when they see you coming.
So I guess we can agree that lane splitting is a double standard where the motorcycles get favor. Besides the air-cooled aspect (which may or may not be as relevant today), what are some other reasons why motorcycles should be allowed to pass in such a way that cars are not?
Maybe around the SF Bay Area we are the exception to the lane splitting exception because I see countless motorcycles lane split at all speeds on the freeway during my commute. I would NEVER intentionally get in the way of a passing motorcycle. That is just wrong and dangerous. However, I don't really go out of my way to move over for them either. See... I also drive in the middle of my lane, just like all the good motorcyclists do. :)
I figure that if a motorcyclist is splitting lanes, he's not taking up a spot in the jam of cars ahead of you. That means one less person in there slowing things down. I can definitely see where it would feel unfair, but really it's more like the self-checkout at a grocery store, or when a post office sets up a separate line for people who just need to pick up a package. The motorcycles are capable of getting out of the way, so they do, which reduces the number of vehicles sitting in the congested area.
I've only ever lane-split when traffic is essentially stopped; at that speed, having somebody suddenly change lanes in front of me would suck, but I wouldn't expect to die from it because I'm moving slowly. It's a lot different when an SUV swerves into you as you're both going 75 on the freeway.
Aside from safety reasons (on which I can't comment) there is no reason not to let bikes go faster in between the lines -- car drivers aren't losing anything. Maybe there are some hurt feelings because it feels unfair and perception that they should stand in line like everybody else, but that is unjustified as they don't slow down your kind of traffic (well, maybe marginally). So double standard here is perfectly justified.
(disclaimer: I don't drive bikes and we don't have too many of them on the roads most of the year)
well... "no reason not to" is not quite the same as "perfectly justified" but I kind of see your point. By that same logic though, there really isn't any reason not to let other vehicles lane split if it can be done safely.
It's been a long time since I rode motorcycles, but I believe that, legally speaking, it works like this: In California you can split lanes, but you can't pass on the right in the same lane. In other words, if you pass on the right side of a car in the same lane then you might get a ticket, but it's legal to pass on the left side of a car in the same lane.
I don't think the target market is existing bikers. The idea isn't that you "split lanes" trying to get places faster in a car-dominated environment, it's that you have a reasonable commute vehicle to use as a car replacement. Note that it was designed to have a windshield and roof (although this one doesn't seem to have the windows installed).
I don't think they'll tap any market but motorcycle drivers. The cost -- even their lowered "target" cost of 16k -- will put you in a car of sorts (either a city car or a used one). I sincerely doubt anyone who can afford a four-wheeled alternative would consider this. It's just too small and too dangerous.
Also, the gyroscopes will keep you upright even if you're hit? Yeah right. Let's see how that works out when an SUV hits you at 60.
If it were way cooler -- and remember a Ducati, BWM, or just about any premium bike can be had for under 16k already -- I might consider it as a motorcycle driver. But like the OP said I would feel less safe in it because it's lower to the ground and has much less visibility.
You're not controlling variables. Of course you won't sell these into the existing market. But the existing market is unsustainable (fuel costs alone would change your calculus about "same cost as a car" today), so what will you sell in the future? Bikes, or these? I know what I'd buy.
And I don't see anywhere where it claimed that the gyros would work in a collision that would destroy the vehicle; that's silly. The point is they won't tip over in a fender bender.
In what future will the two transportation choices be motorcycles and covered motorcycles?
On a more serious note, how is the current market unsustainable? Even if something as specious as "Peak Oil" were true, it's well within our power to move to another fuel source. And since when does fuel availability dictate personal vehicle design? If we can make any personal vehicle, certainly we can make one with four wheels and room for passengers and groceries?
At-the-pump gasoline prices have been moving steadily, inexorably upward for the past 13 years. It's not even news any more when we hit new record prices; it happens every summer. You really think that trend is going to halt any time soon? A median car in the USA is now less expensive than the fuel it will consume (and outside the USA, of course, fuel is a much greater fraction). You think that constraint won't "dicate personal vehicle design" in the future? I don't need "peak oil" theories to make this argument, just simple facts you can google for yourself.
(And the bit about the choice being "only" two wheelers is a strawman; please don't do that. I said it was a "reasonable commute vehicle", it was you that wanted to make an argument about whether it competes with a bike.)
And people are stilling buying trucks that get 15mpg over Priuses that get 50mpg.
My current car gets 22-25mpg (older Subaru Forester) and it's hardly bigger than a Prius. I could cut my gas bill in half with that switch and lose almost no functionality and certainly no loss of safety.
And the way I look at it, I'd rather just not drive than drive something horribly unsafe.
"Inexorably". Yes. Now, if we believed that any consistent trend over a period of about a decade would last forever, where would we all be? Buying multi-million dollar 2-bedroom homes in Detroit with our pets.com investment proceeds, I'd imagine.
Your point being what, that there's a speculative boom in petroleum prices?
It's a finite resource with a growing demand. Seems like my argument requires less in the way of elaborate justification.
I don't expect to convince you of anything. So: write it down. In 2012 you thought $4 gas was going to stop getting more expensive. In 2014 when it hits $5, you'll probably think similarly. At $10, maybe you're change your mind. And if you've written it down you'll hopefully avoid this kind of mistake in the future.
People like you have been predicting cheaper gas right around the corner since 2003. They haven't been right yet.
For most of the 90s gas was underpriced compared to historical levels. This was due to a variety of reasons, some technological, some economic, some geopolitical. Over the last decade or so gas has gone up in price though the price is still quite volatile. Short-term estimates are that gas prices probably won't go much higher. Longer-term estimates are tricky, but increasing production of crude oil and natural gas from North America will probably cause prices to fall.
The "finite resource" aspect is a bit of a misnomer. Yes, oil is finite, and it is used up. But what matters is how long can current rates of use be maintained. If it's only a decade then prices will definitely skyrocket, if it's more like a century then prices might not outpace inflation.
I could argue all day about technology and production but the best argument is the simplest one, more often than not the claim that "this time it's different" is seldom justified. What argument do you have that "this time it's different" in regard to cost and volume of oil production vs, say, the 1970s?
People like you have been arguing that we're going to run out of oil since the 1950s. They haven't been right yet.
You're strawmanning. I didn't say we were going to "run out" of oil, I said prices were headed upwards, had been for a long time now, and was showing no signs of reversing. And that we're at the point now where fuel costs are 1:1 with production costs of vehicles, and thus we're going to start seeing changes in vehicle designs at the low end to compensate.
I don't see a "this time it's different" anywhere, just an extrapolation of pretty clear evidence. I'm willing to listen to alternatives, like this one:
> Short-term estimates are that gas prices probably won't go much higher.
For which you conveniently fail to produce a cite. :)
(edit: and still haven't. The only link I found that matches your point is a Reuters story saying that prices are expected to be stable "this summer". So if a three-month window is your criteria for "short term" then I grant you that. And when the expected rise continues in the fall, you'll promise to change your mind?)
How congested are the roads there? It is legal in California, although I typically don't ride in heavy traffic so I don't feel the need. I'm told that it's also quite common in Washington DC, despite being illegal there.
Even if it is a very technically cool thing.