I found the following review of the book interesting. I always like to read the "negative" reviews of something because I find it easier to make a decision whether to read something or buy something (books, software, food, etc...) based on whether I can identify with the negative comments or not.
If someone has recommended something to me, and the negative comments are inconsequential to me (or absurd, etc...), I'm more likely to follow that recommendation. Likewise the reverse.
Understanding Power is, without question, the most comprehensive and compelling presentation of Noam Chomsky's ideas. Reading this book will change the way you see the world. If you are interested in Chomsky, it is likely that you are a noble person who genuinely cares for others and yearns for a better world. Beware, reader, and make sure you choose the right vehicle for your hope. While his intentions are for a peaceful, safe, and healthy world, Chomsky's political writings systematically assume conscious malevolence without evidence, ignore context, and romanticize Third World struggles, regardless of their goals.
Let's briefly examine some of his convictions on a pressing topic: the War on Terror. Following the September 11th attacks, Chomsky immediately presented them as our fault: the result of U.S. Middle East policy, and equally evil U.S. Cold War efforts (training Mujahadeen to oust the Soviets from Afghanistan). His presumption here is that if the United States changes its behavior, that terrorist attacks will then cease. Islamic terrorists, in fact, want a pan-world government under Talibanesque repressive sharia law, a vision that mandates the overthrow of all free nations beginning with ours. These facts are easily learned by reading about the historical development of Islamic radicalism, which is rooted in reinterpretations of the Qur'an's dictates for action, NOT in wishes to live peacefully in a U.S.-free Middle East. These facts, however, do not enter into the Chomskyan world-view, which romanticizes Third World underdogs as brave and legitimized no matter what they stand for.
The linguist also described the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan as a conscious "silent genocide," predicting wrongly that millions would be severed from food supplies. As is typical, Chomsky here focused solely on the negative aspects of the situation, those for which the U.S. deserved his bitter recrimination. For a man who lives prosperously in America and is supposedly the voice of the downtrodden, Chomsky certainly did not put himself into the shoes of the Afghan women. For them, whose existence was akin to slavery, the liberation was a cause for great joy. Actual sentiments were fully antithetical to Chomsky's condemnatory remarks to his villainous U.S. government, which he and he alone believed was consciously bent on killing as many innocent Afghans as possible. Omitting what is significant (the liberation of people living under tyranny, in this case) to emphasize his often ludicrous misperceptions about American motives and motivations is a constant in Chomsky's writings. His Cold War depictions are even more stunning, as Understanding Power's abundant examples attest.
In the case that you are already entrenched in his manner of thinking, at least admit that Noam Chomsky MIGHT be wrong, and see if his positions hold up under review: read Chomsky's articulate, sane critics (The Anti-Chomsky Reader is a good place to start). If he is perfect, then you have nothing but gain to acheive from this exercise; it will only serve to strengthen your ability to effectively argue and implement Chomsky's ideas in the world. After clear-eyed reassessment of his political writings, if you STILL think he is on-point, then all the best to you. If, however, you reevaluate his "wisdom," you will have saved yourself from much needless confusion and despair.
Were Chomsky's views simply false, there would not be need for this posting. They become perilous, however, in their blind, wholesale demonization of the United States. Chomsky's own fear and anger about the state of our world are projected, with great urgency: anger at and fear of U.S. "elites" is the Chomsky program. The result is often flat-out hatred. What would Chomsky do were he President? We do not know; he avoids that inconvenient question by telling us that were he to run (which he admits he would never do), the first thing he would do is tell us not to vote for him. Furthermore, why does Professor Chomsky not include himself in the "elites" so prominent in his analyses? Does he not pay taxes, and drive a BMW, and teach at a cushy, prestigious university? The questions may seem too simplistic, but they point to a core issue: if Chomsky cannot look into the mirror regarding his own status and societal position, then how much more impaired must his assessments be of things outside of himself? On paper, it is unclear exactly what Chomsky IS calling for, and putting aside the constant onslaught of judgment-filled writings and audio programs, neither does his life provide us an example of what he conceives to be right-action. Those who want an idea of who believes IN Chomsky, however, need look no further than Hugo Chavez, who recently proclaimed allegiance and military support to his "brother" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Ahmadinejad, for anyone who needs reminding, daily denies the Holocaust, and calls for the destruction of Israel and the United States. Is it a coincidence that those who love Chomsky also embrace a world-view rooted in blame, anger, and vilification?
Good and evil do exist in this world, but Noam Chomsky is not capable of distinguishing between the two. The U.S.A. is not perfect, and never will be. Nevertheless, if we fail to recognize the good that IS here, we may soon lose our nation. Chomsky's writings are little more than a good reminder that appearance is not essence. It is worth noting as well, that Chomsky is an avowed atheist, and believes that life is meaningless. If we bear in mind that evil is in the eye of the beholder, then Chomsky--an American, an Israelite, a millionaire--is instantly unmasked in all of his self-revulsion. Understanding Power should be retitled as "Understanding Blame." Stear clear and take heart, reader; there is hope in this world, and your country is good, but you will discover neither in Avram Noam Chomsky.
People who disagree with Chomsky usually characterize his views as this review does, as blind, wholesale demonization of the United States.
Chomsky's views are in fact the ultimate form of patriotism. he expects more of our nation and isn't sentimentally attached to the kind of hero and "good guy" stories that so many people need in order to be able to sleep at night.
Anyone who truly cares about America will read as much Chomsky as they can and will take action to make the US live by the values that supposedly guide its existence. There are some very inspiring things about the US, but also a very ugly side that much effort is undertaken to hide from view.
So please watch Manufacturing Consent with an open mind and observe the incredible patriot Chomsky for a while before you have the knee-jerk reaction that the reviewer would like you to have.
Al Franken describes it best in Lies and the Lying Liars Who Tell Them:
"They don't get it. We love America just as much as they do, but in a differenct way. You see, they love America the way a four-year-old loves her mommy. [We] love America like grown-ups. To a four-year-old everything mommy does is wonderful and anyone who criticizes mommy is bad. Grown-up love means understanding what you love, taking the good with the bad, and helping your loved one grow."
President Obama's war on whistleblowers is generally an attempt to silence the stories that present the US in an unflattering (though true) light. Just mentioning this in case anyone thinks that Franken's quote indicates that the mainstream left actually shares Chomsky's principled stance.
Obama is not "mainstream left" or any other kind of left. He's best characterized as a moderate conservative. In Canada, where I live, Obama's beliefs would be considered to the right of our Conservative Party, which is considerably to the right of the Canadian mainstream but managed to win the last election because the centre and centre-left votes were split among three or four parties.
His presumption here is that if the United States changes its behavior, that terrorist attacks will then cease. Islamic terrorists, in fact, want a pan-world government under Talibanesque repressive sharia law, a vision that mandates the overthrow of all free nations beginning with ours.
First, It is not the US's fault it got attacked, Gandhi changed British foreign policy with peaceful protests. The terrorists chose murder and the attacks are their fault. Having said that.
We have Bin Laden on video tape explicitly explaining why they attacked the US. And why they did not attack Sweden for example. And it is because of the US foreign policy in the middle east. Supporting the regime in Saudi Arabia, etc. Straight from the hose's mouth.
If you are going to claim Chomsky is just plain wrong, please provide supporting evidence.
And please try to stay away from equating critique of US foreign policy as "demonizing the USA."
And "we may soon lose our nation." is just plain baseless fear mongering.
And the fact that Chomsky is an "avowed atheist" has nothing to do with anything.
The analysis of Islamic terrorism in the Amazon review is not wrong. Nor is it wrong to say that Bin Laden explicitly blamed his 9/11 attack on US foreign policy in the Middle East. They are both true and compatible.
Chomsky presumes that the US and US foreign policy are evil, when in fact the US is good and US foreign policy is often seriously mistaken (but not evil), with occasional evil individuals in leadership and non-leadership positions.
So, Chomsky is wrong, and he does demonize the US and US foreign policy.
And "we may soon lose our nation" is not at all wrong. The US government conducts constant surveillance on practically all citizens, as I imagine you're aware of, and Obama is trying to violate the Second Amendment of the Constitution (which he clearly has no respect for) using executive orders. At what point is freedom "lost"? In principle, a long time ago. From here on out, it's just a slippery slope.
I say this as an atheist, so I agree with you that Chomsky being an atheist has nothing to do with anything.
>Chomsky presumes that the US and US foreign policy are evil
Tending towards an anarchist position, he presumes all concentrated power is bad. On what metric is the US government and foreign policy (like any) a clear, unequivocal 'good'? Take Vietnam for example. You seem to have enough issues yourself with overarching, expanding state power, but think these issues stop at the border?
But Chomsky has never called the US, it's government, or it's foreign policy 'evil'. Care to refute a position he has actually taken?. I don't believe he has any bias against the US, it obviously attracts most attention because of it's place as the world's current superpower (and as such holds the most power too).
I say this as an atheist, so that we are all in a hug to begin with :)
Disagree that Chomsky is demonizing the US by being critical of our foreign policy.
Chomsky is very specific with his criticism of foreign policy, and one of the things that impresses me is that he seems to read more of 'Foreign Policy' and the Wall Street Journal than most of the right-wing, and certainly more than most of his critics.
Have you read much or any of his political writing? The dude is huge on footnotes and resources.
Often in his political lectures, Chomsky will quote very non-lefty sources for quotes and context, to demonstrate the rather matter-of-fact nature of what they say their true goals are.
It's telling that you are supporting a person who thinks governments routinely lie, then you auto-assume that anything Bin Laden says is a representative of the entire motivating ideology of all terrorism.
The spirit of modern political analysis is to judge organizations as they do, not as they say through a mouthpiece. Terrorists don't get a free pass on this. The activity of Al-Qaeda and similar organizations in places like Iraq and Afghanistan and Pakistan seems, to my eye, not oriented around fighting global capitalist oppressors or that sort of first-world ivory tower nonsense, but oriented around killing a lot of people who don't believe what they believe.
'entire motivating ideology of all terrorism', hello strawman!
I find it helpful to cut through the BS in these cases to consider what would be the case if the roles were reversed. American citizens would be the first to form 'freedom fighter' guerilla armies to fight off an occupying nation.
For me it what OBL claims on the matter is not the most important; Chomsky's proposal for the likely underlying motivations for attacking the US are just far more credible than yours. The fact that he said it just strengthens the case. It's worth noting that OBL doesn't have electoral motivation to lie, too.
So it's a ruse? What motive does OBL have to lie about here? I don't disagree that al qaeda has the unobtainable goal of creating a world califate, but I also do think that American policies could have been a factor in strategic decisions for where to attack. I also think the main line of arguing here is not about al qaedas long term goals, but the recruiting. Things like invading Iraq on false pretenses, abu garab, guantonimo, the cia coup in Iran. These things create anger in the arab world that al quaeda can channel for whatever goals they want. From his critics you would think chomsky consideres al qaeda and taliban to be freedom fighters. Which I've never heard. Maybe parts of the palestinian resistance, but that's another beast.
While there are many reasons to be careful when reading Chomsky, his description of the rationales/causes of 'war of terror' are quite consensual. They are actually boringly consensual, and it says quite a lot that they are not considered as such.
Thinking in term of good and evil is useless when thinking about world affairs. The US did not spend 100 of billions of $ and 1000s of dead American soldiers for Afghan Women rights (they had no trouble financing/helping the mujahideen when they were fighting against USSR). While the human rights situation in Afghanistan was (is) appealing, the US have no trouble supporting Saudi Arabia, whose record is significantly worse than Iran. The reasons for this situation are painfully obvious.
While terror acts on American are not US' fault, or 'deserved', they are certainly an expected consequence from the US actions (and their allies) in certains areas of the world. Particularly, it was a well known risk when the USA became more involved in Afghanistan in the late 70ies that it could have some bad consequences: it was deemed a worthwhile risk for USSR containment. I unfortunately can't find any reference right now, but there are top foreign advisers on record saying that 11th September was an acceptable price to pay to have contained the USSR 15-20 years before.
Not entirely convincing. I personally prefer Falkenstein as my Chomsky critic:
The spread is a debating tactic where you present a set of supporting arguments so wide and particular your opponents are unable to rebut them all because 1) they have day jobs and 2) they have limited space or time to address them in any particular forum. A champion spreader is Noam Chomsky, who selectively recites facts of world history from Indonesia, Russia, to El Salvadore and 200 places in between, which no one but a professional in Comparative Economic Systems would be familiar with (indeed, comparative economic systems was a flourishing economic subdiscipline precisely because it couldn't be easily refuted because those communist countries didn't have a free press and made up their production data, but after 1989 it was obvious this field was simple wishful thinking dominated by deluded Marxists-note:of the ones I knew!).
The problem is the amount, it's the fact that it's wide-spread (i.e. horizontal) but when you examine deeply any one piece you find it to be quite weak, i.e. shallow.
It's a similar technique used by conspiracy theorists and Creationists.
The author is quite explicitly saying that the problem is the volume and variety of information. There is no mention of the 'shallowness' of any one particular reference.
The author justifies this by saying no reader can reasonably be expected to be "familiar with" the references Chomsky uses. So what? The references are all there and available for the reader to look up. Once looked up, the reader is familiar with it. No problem. Incredibly weak argument and one that can only be accepted if we accept lazy reading as a given.
I think it is quite obviously implied that Chomsky's understanding of all his examples is quite shallow and that they are being used mainly to add weight to a predetermined world view. falkenstein's point is that it is almost impossible to understand such a variety of examples in real depth and it is also unlikely that Chomsky himself is using them all correctly. To dismiss this criticism as simply an acceptance of "lazy reading" seems a little naive.
> it is also unlikely that Chomsky himself is using them all correctly.
That's low hanging fruit then, go for it. After all proving Chomsky decisively wrong on a large number of things is something a lot of people would like to be able to do, by reading you I get the impression that this is easy. After all criticizing Yehudi Menuhin does not even require one to be able to play the violin.
The criticism is laughable. It amounts to saying that because most people aren't Chomsky, and I am not Chomsky, Chomsky must not be Chomsky either. But the man is simply prodigious, as even his detractors routinely admit. There are countless examples.
I've had occasion to examine "any one piece" a few times and found Chomsky's citations to hold up quite well. This sort of criticism has been around as long as he's been publishing on politics and is almost invariably completely determined by pre-existing ideology.
Shotgun argumentation - the arguer offers such a large number of arguments for their position that the opponent can't possibly respond to all of them [1]
Gish has been characterized as using a rapid-fire approach during a debate, presenting arguments and changing topics very quickly [2]
Also, this might be relevant (?):
Proof by intimidation (or argumentum verbosium) is a jocular phrase used mainly in mathematics to refer to a style of presenting a purported mathematical proof by giving an argument loaded with jargon and appeal to obscure results, so that the audience is simply obliged to accept it, lest they have to admit their ignorance and lack of understanding. [3]
I had a history professor notorious for assigning dense reading. Students would often complain about it. His response was that it's not the author's fault the reader is too lazy and unwilling to keep up.
> your opponents are unable to rebut them all because
> 1) they have day jobs and 2) they have limited space
> or time to address them in any particular forum.
There are plenty of people on the right whose day jobs involve addressing the issues that Chomsky addresses.
They do not lack space, either in terms of disk storage on Web servers, and column-inches on hard copy publications. What they lack are logic, facts, and a cohesive conceptual framework.
I've listened to and attended plenty of talks by Chomsky, and this "review" does not in the slightest represent Chomsky's actual thoughts on anything. This "review" is nothing but a caricature.
Furthermore, it is hypocritical; i.e., it is guilty of its own criticism by hating on atheists.
You didn't write this, so why repost it unless you wanted to appear 'concerned' about the topic? Worst HN comment in a while, at least just link to it and provide your analysis.
So much of this is bullshit, and I notice that the author doesn't give any references at all. Which is very different from Chomsky's approach.
I think if someone is going to criticise Chomsky, they need more than strawman arguments to do so. Of course proper criticism would require proper analysis, and thus probably be a lot longer than a typical Amazon review.
I have read some amount of Chomsky and do not find these to be strawman arguments. An "us vs them" attitude pervades his writing. One common pattern is overweening assumption backed by laser-guided cherry picking of examples.
You can see the above pattern all throughout this thread, in fact. Broad assumptions that seem true enough at first, but are overwhelmingly applied in a toxic way. Meanwhile people are sick of this proselytizing attitude, only to be accused of setting up "strawmen" or "not understanding Chomsky" or something. There is something dangerous about an ideology that causes people to devalue the opinions of those who don't understand it.
But one of the characteristic features of this kind of position is that the people who live in a world of "good vs ignorance" are generally unable to self-examine, at least for that particular facet of their ideology.
Chomsky does round up a lot of criticisms and put them in one place. I'm not sure what 'ideology' you are referring to, unless you view 'reason' as an 'ideology'. But perhaps I am missing some over arching agenda Chomsky has... ?
They ARE strawmen arguments because they present partially related items as reasons for chomsky being wrong. If Chomsky is cherry picking, then the way to respond is to bring ALL the information to light, and show that Chomsky is misrepresenting it... Not to cherry pick something else...
I don't really understand your "Good vs Ignorance" reference, who are you referring to? and why are they unable to self-examine? which ideology are we talking about?
Most people choose the blue pill, a ka it seems Chomsky is not for everyone.
It seems easy to debunk that whole criticism, but what is the point. People believe what they want to believe (which is what benefits them to believe).
Just an example: Islamic Terrorists. Of course fanatics want to kill everybody in the western world or whatever. The question is however, why do people become fanatics. Think about it...
>His presumption here is that if the United States changes its behavior, that terrorist attacks will then cease. Islamic terrorists, in fact, want a pan-world government under Talibanesque repressive sharia law, a vision that mandates the overthrow of all free nations beginning with ours.
>The linguist also described the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan as a conscious "silent genocide," predicting wrongly that millions would be severed from food supplies.
As I recall he didn't do this investigation himself but cited some organization's analysis, but sure, he basically endorsed the analysis and said state planners must have been aware of it (wrongly discounting that they might have thought it was a bad analysis, which it was).
>Chomsky certainly did not put himself into the shoes of the Afghan women.
Looking at the US's stance on the recent Bahrain protests, I somehow doubt this had anything significant to do with why we went into Afghanistan. One of our biggest allies in the middle-east is Saudi Arabia, champion of women's rights?
>These facts are easily learned by reading about the historical development of Islamic radicalism, which is rooted in reinterpretations of the Qur'an's dictates for action, NOT in wishes to live peacefully in a U.S.-free Middle East.
What spurred the reinterpretations? Simple scholarly random happenstance, or post WW-II reality on the ground? Am I really to believe the US's support for Isreal had nothing to do with these developments? Even hardcore Zionists acknowledge that (though with a framework of thought that paints such impetus as completely morally bankrupt).
>His Cold War depictions are even more stunning, as Understanding Power's abundant examples attest.
I've never heard someone set him straight on Indonesia/East Timor, but I would love to.
>Furthermore, why does Professor Chomsky not include himself in the "elites" so prominent in his analyses? Does he not pay taxes, and drive a BMW, and teach at a cushy, prestigious university?
I've heard him include himself, but perhaps not in Understanding Power. He says his position of privilege is exactly what puts a burden on him to take our crimes seriously. I hadn't heard about the BMW, but he certainly does like to sport a nice sweater. Re: elite university both Chomsky and Norbert Weiner (whose father was a linguist) have/had some interesting things to say on why people of Jewish descent ended up at MIT and not Harvard back in the 40s.. it wasn't pretty. I'm not sure Chomsky was affected by Harvard's policies, he was associated with them for a while.
>Chomsky is an avowed atheist, and believes that life is meaningless.
I have seen talks where he claims free-will is something we can probably never prove but that he thinks it is correct and he asserts that if it isn't correct, then life would be meaningless. I don't agree with that implication, but it blows this part of the review out of the water (to be fair, the review was probably written prior to the talk I am remembering).
The main thing I've seen Chomsky get wrong is some of his speculations on the existence of the master control gene being a major challenge to standard Darwinism ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PAX6 ); he has talked about it in several talks, but in one Q/A he really really got it wrong (see http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/evolution/library/04/4/text_pop/l_04... for an account of its alignment with Darwinism).
"Chomsky is an avowed atheist and believes life is meaningless." This review really jumped the shark when he resorted to bigotry. Nothing about being atheist makes life meaningless. It actually makes it more precious to believe this is our only shot at life. Instead of treating life as some testing ground for earning rewards in some hypothetical afterlife. If I knew there was life after death I don't think I'd be as worried about getting things right this time around since I could always hope things are better after I die..
I pretty much agree with this analysis, minus the dig against atheism. I haven't read Chomsky in detail, but this seems to be an accurate description of what he claims on the surface (e.g. in public interviews).
It seems likely that hatemongerers like Chomsky were an influence in leading to Aaron Schwarz's eventual suicide.
I apologize for the insensitivity towards Aaron here, but it seems worth saying.
Did you stop to think that maybe this is why you agree with someone who is making overbroad generalizations about Chomsky's work? How can you agree with any analysis if you're ignorant of what it's analyzing?
The culture of "right to criticize without reading" in the US astounds me.
Further it is amusing to hear a self-proclaimed objectivist asserting that external forces played a role in causing a free agent's suicide.
The culture of "right to criticize without reading" in the US astounds me.
There are a lot of large-scale cultural problems here, but I don't think that in particular is one of them.
I can't count how many times I've looked up Chomsky's views over the years, and every single time I've looked them up, it's become immediately clear that he is completely dishonest.
Normally, I do some background research before I read primary sources, and for the reason I stated above, I've never gotten past the background research.
If you think there's some particular primary resource from Chomsky I could read that would completely alter my worldview (and change my above analysis), please let me know, but you would have to convince me that this is likely enough that it's worth my time to look into it.
Until then, I have to take his statements on face value, albeit I am (admittedly) "taking" them without the full context of the surrounding literature.
Further it is amusing to hear a self-proclaimed objectivist asserting that external forces played a role in causing a free agent's suicide.
I mean, it's pretty obvious that people fall for bad ideas and then act on them. I guess you must have a pretty strawman-ish grasp on Objectivism.
I can't count how many times I've looked up Chomsky's views over the years, and every single time I've looked them up, it's become immediately clear that he is completely dishonest.
It would be interesting if you gave us a few examples of where you looked up his views, and found him to be completely dishonest.
He contends that there is little moral difference between chattel slavery and renting one's self to an owner or "wage slavery". (from Wikipedia)
There is just one example, taken relatively randomly.
"Wage slavery" is a completely invalid concept. If I want to work, and somebody wants to pay me a wage, that is moral and proper and free. It's called trade.
Someone who holds a gun to my head to force me not to engage freely in trade with others is immoral and evil.
Clearly, Chomsky has the latter view, unless I'm misunderstanding.
Actual slavery is an institution supported by immorally coercing someone, too, like the position Chomsky is advocating.
So Chomsky's views have much more in common with slavery than the views he criticizes as being like slavery, i.e., trading one's effort in return for payment.
Chomsky claims to be against "unjustified authority," but he is actually a major proponent of force in human relationships.
I can't take someone seriously who makes these kind of blatantly ridiculous statements.
Of course, I am taking this from Wikipedia, not in the full context of what he has actually written. So, maybe he didn't actually say that. Or maybe he actually said it, but proceeded it with, "The following sentence is false." I would need to hear something to this effect before I would consider taking someone seriously who says the thing that I quoted from Wikipedia.
Because what he's said is in the same broad epistemological and moral category as a verse from a holy book commanding people to kill others for religious regions. In other words, completely unrelated to reality, and completely evil.
From the Wikipedia article that you mention: The term wage slavery has been used to criticize economic exploitation and social stratification, with the former seen primarily as unequal bargaining power between labor and capital (particularly when workers are paid comparatively low wages, e.g. in sweatshops), and the latter as a lack of workers' self-management, fulfilling job choices and leisure in an economy. [1]
I think the article itself is quite clear. The notion of wage slavery does not imply everyone who accepts wages is a slave. Taken without the qualification of bargaining power and such, Chomsky would be MIT's slave. I don't think he subscribes to that view.
I downvoted you because you took that sentence from Wikipedia completely out of context, not just out of context with regard to its surrounding paragraph on Wikipedia, but also because its out of context with regard to the citation at Wikipedia and what Chomsky has to say about worker ownership.
I summarized the essence of why I disagree with the article, and with what Chomsky said. I cannot address all the low-level details here and give a precise rebuttal to everything.
So I acknowledge that I have taken it out of context, but in a more neutral sense. That's just the nature of taking a very detailed point of view, and trying to discuss it on HN with people who have totally different underlying assumptions.
I do want to thank you for explaining why you downvoted me, and for standing up against the person who called me an "imbecile" in a different comment. I really value this community and even when we disagree on philosophy, it's really good when we can all be civil to each other.
It seems likely that you are an imbecile. Thanks for letting everyone know that you agree with everything the review says about Chomsky despite the fact that you haven't actually read Chomsky.
One can still have a conversation about a subject without having much depth in the subject. If you haven't read Taming of the Shrew, you can still understand the story if I give you a quick version, and we can talk about that meta-story, because there are things in the text (via my description) that we both understand. However, it's difficult to have a conversation with much specificity or depth having not both read the text.
You'll note that javert's posts here lack both specificity and depth. It's probably best to just leave it at that note.
Thanks for letting everyone know that you agree with everything the review says about Chomsky despite the fact that you haven't actually read Chomsky.
You're welcome. I think that's the intellectually responsible and honest thing to do. And it gives people a chance to point out what I am misunderstanding and educate me, if they really think I've gotten it wrong.
It seems likely that you are an imbecile.
I gave an explanation for why I haven't read his actual literature in another comment. I mean, I don't read the Quaran in order to learn about science, either. Does that mean I can't criticize those who do? Anyway, I'm pretty sure I'm not an imbecile.
"And it gives people a chance to point out what I am misunderstanding and educate me, if they really think I've gotten it wrong."
Just a friendly note that this notion will cause you much grief.
I used to think that it was the best way to quickly get to the point and figure out what is what in the matter. What happens instead is that people will call you an imbecile and go off on tangents about subjects they have recently read a story about instead of addressing the core issues, of which they know less about.
In reality most people do not know much about these complex issues and you will not really learn anything by trying to make them educate you. They are not able to.
You will need to investigate the issues yourself, including reading a lot of literature by those you think are wrong. Eventually you will be able to understand where those opposing viewpoints are coming from and if you are lucky you will learn something that can adjust your own views and you will no longer have the "us vs them" feeling and instead think of it as "those who are wrong on this point and those who are wrong on this other point".
Getting to that place is impossible by imploring others to educate you. They will at best try to convert you, which is entirely different.
I mean, it's not my primary motivation in making comments, for other people to "educate me" in a broad sense.
I meant something more like, "If I happen to have misunderstood some particular concrete thing, people can provide a citation that shows the opposite."
Which, indeed, didn't happen this time. Instead, as you said, there was just a bunch of very high-level disagreement without any "meeting of the minds" on some important lower-level details.
Anyway, my real motivation for posting on the Chomsky stuff was because I feel compelled to call out truly evil pseudo-intellectuals, as I see them, when I see them. Chomsky advocates "anarcho-syndicalism," which is just low-level rule by gangs. He wants to dismantle civilization, which he preaches hatred for. To me, he is in the same moral standard as the intellectuals that came before and enabled the likes of Stalin and Hitler.
You missed an essential point in the introduction of the review. Chomsky is not a hatemongerer: he is honest, hard-working and idealistic. It's just that the worldview underlying his arguments, the worldview that guides how he chooses subjects and supporting arguments, may be unbalanced and consequently 'wrong' in the eyes of many others.
If someone has recommended something to me, and the negative comments are inconsequential to me (or absurd, etc...), I'm more likely to follow that recommendation. Likewise the reverse.
http://www.amazon.com/review/R31KSCZ4TXPLIR/ref=cm_cr_pr_per...
Reposting:
Understanding Power is, without question, the most comprehensive and compelling presentation of Noam Chomsky's ideas. Reading this book will change the way you see the world. If you are interested in Chomsky, it is likely that you are a noble person who genuinely cares for others and yearns for a better world. Beware, reader, and make sure you choose the right vehicle for your hope. While his intentions are for a peaceful, safe, and healthy world, Chomsky's political writings systematically assume conscious malevolence without evidence, ignore context, and romanticize Third World struggles, regardless of their goals.
Let's briefly examine some of his convictions on a pressing topic: the War on Terror. Following the September 11th attacks, Chomsky immediately presented them as our fault: the result of U.S. Middle East policy, and equally evil U.S. Cold War efforts (training Mujahadeen to oust the Soviets from Afghanistan). His presumption here is that if the United States changes its behavior, that terrorist attacks will then cease. Islamic terrorists, in fact, want a pan-world government under Talibanesque repressive sharia law, a vision that mandates the overthrow of all free nations beginning with ours. These facts are easily learned by reading about the historical development of Islamic radicalism, which is rooted in reinterpretations of the Qur'an's dictates for action, NOT in wishes to live peacefully in a U.S.-free Middle East. These facts, however, do not enter into the Chomskyan world-view, which romanticizes Third World underdogs as brave and legitimized no matter what they stand for.
The linguist also described the U.S.-led invasion of Afghanistan as a conscious "silent genocide," predicting wrongly that millions would be severed from food supplies. As is typical, Chomsky here focused solely on the negative aspects of the situation, those for which the U.S. deserved his bitter recrimination. For a man who lives prosperously in America and is supposedly the voice of the downtrodden, Chomsky certainly did not put himself into the shoes of the Afghan women. For them, whose existence was akin to slavery, the liberation was a cause for great joy. Actual sentiments were fully antithetical to Chomsky's condemnatory remarks to his villainous U.S. government, which he and he alone believed was consciously bent on killing as many innocent Afghans as possible. Omitting what is significant (the liberation of people living under tyranny, in this case) to emphasize his often ludicrous misperceptions about American motives and motivations is a constant in Chomsky's writings. His Cold War depictions are even more stunning, as Understanding Power's abundant examples attest.
In the case that you are already entrenched in his manner of thinking, at least admit that Noam Chomsky MIGHT be wrong, and see if his positions hold up under review: read Chomsky's articulate, sane critics (The Anti-Chomsky Reader is a good place to start). If he is perfect, then you have nothing but gain to acheive from this exercise; it will only serve to strengthen your ability to effectively argue and implement Chomsky's ideas in the world. After clear-eyed reassessment of his political writings, if you STILL think he is on-point, then all the best to you. If, however, you reevaluate his "wisdom," you will have saved yourself from much needless confusion and despair.
Were Chomsky's views simply false, there would not be need for this posting. They become perilous, however, in their blind, wholesale demonization of the United States. Chomsky's own fear and anger about the state of our world are projected, with great urgency: anger at and fear of U.S. "elites" is the Chomsky program. The result is often flat-out hatred. What would Chomsky do were he President? We do not know; he avoids that inconvenient question by telling us that were he to run (which he admits he would never do), the first thing he would do is tell us not to vote for him. Furthermore, why does Professor Chomsky not include himself in the "elites" so prominent in his analyses? Does he not pay taxes, and drive a BMW, and teach at a cushy, prestigious university? The questions may seem too simplistic, but they point to a core issue: if Chomsky cannot look into the mirror regarding his own status and societal position, then how much more impaired must his assessments be of things outside of himself? On paper, it is unclear exactly what Chomsky IS calling for, and putting aside the constant onslaught of judgment-filled writings and audio programs, neither does his life provide us an example of what he conceives to be right-action. Those who want an idea of who believes IN Chomsky, however, need look no further than Hugo Chavez, who recently proclaimed allegiance and military support to his "brother" Mahmoud Ahmadinejad. Ahmadinejad, for anyone who needs reminding, daily denies the Holocaust, and calls for the destruction of Israel and the United States. Is it a coincidence that those who love Chomsky also embrace a world-view rooted in blame, anger, and vilification?
Good and evil do exist in this world, but Noam Chomsky is not capable of distinguishing between the two. The U.S.A. is not perfect, and never will be. Nevertheless, if we fail to recognize the good that IS here, we may soon lose our nation. Chomsky's writings are little more than a good reminder that appearance is not essence. It is worth noting as well, that Chomsky is an avowed atheist, and believes that life is meaningless. If we bear in mind that evil is in the eye of the beholder, then Chomsky--an American, an Israelite, a millionaire--is instantly unmasked in all of his self-revulsion. Understanding Power should be retitled as "Understanding Blame." Stear clear and take heart, reader; there is hope in this world, and your country is good, but you will discover neither in Avram Noam Chomsky.