I sympathize with whoever criticized the guy for loud typing. Seriously, it's distracting/disruptive. I learnt to type on (manual) typewriter too but laptops and keys don't need to be stabbed with the force of a thousand suns to register the press.
It can be just as loud as people talking and (IMHO) can be harder to tune out. After all, we're used to hearing people talk all the time.
Oh and while I'm in the mood for ranting, people who eat with their mouths open--particularly when it's something crunchy--or who slurp in any way are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
I don't catch long distance trains in the US at all. I sometimes take the subway but more often than not you're just standing for 10-15 minutes. In Germany, I don't recall having a lot of problems with noise (although, on one train back from Oberhausen, the smoke was so thick you couldn't see one window from the other in a very Cheech and Chong moment). England varied but was generally fine.
What I'm not looking forward to is when cellphones become usable on planes because you know someone is going to sit there and talk loudly for the entire flight.
One tip though: my Bose noise cancelling headphones are worth their weight in gold.
Totally agree about the slurping...but it should be noted that this is also a cultural phenomenon. In some cultures, it's a sign of appreciation for the food. Not slurping means you don't like your food and it's disrespectful.
That said, holy hell I can't stand the sound. Nothing will make me flee a place faster than listening to someone slurp their food as they shovel it into their gaping maw.
"...but it should be noted that this is also a cultural phenomenon."
After spending some time in Taiwan, I found myself slurping tea and hot pot by default. I came to realize slurping has it's advantages – in particular, you don't burn your lips and tongue on hot liquids.
Although I've re-Westernized when it comes to not slurping food, I do still slurp tea. Apparently, I'm not alone in thinking it's the best way to drink it. From the LA Times:
To taste tea, you must slurp it loudly, because tea needs oxygen to release its flavor. "Can we make some noise?" Spillane urged those who were drinking too politely. "You need to spray your entire mouth and draw air in with the tea to get a proper taste."
Slurping also makes it possible to drink very hot liquid without burning the mouth, and tea is at its best when hot. As it cools, it loses flavor.
> After spending some time in Taiwan, I found myself slurping tea and hot pot by default. I came to realize slurping has it's advantages – in particular, you don't burn your lips and tongue on hot liquids.
Slurping sounds generally annoy me, but I'll admit I slurp that first sip of coffee because I'm never quite sure exactly how hot it will be.
I think it's the repetition more than the actual slurp that bothers me, though. Any repetitive sound can send me into a rage after about a minute.
I experienced quite a culture shock when returning to the US after living in Tokyo for a year. I was at some noodle place with a friend and ate the noodles in the way I considered normal. Eventually he told me he was going to leave because I was eating so rudely.
"Welcome back to the land of the Puritans," I thought to myself.
I find it seriously annoying, but I realize that others don't.
The problem is that if you don't like it, you really don't like it. Meanwhile, if you don't mind it, people who do seem like jerks.
Imagine something more universally recognized as rude. E.g. Eating with someone who keeps making really smelly farts or picking his nose all the time. The disgust is visceral, and hard to rationalize away.
> The problem is that if you don't like it, you really don't like it. Meanwhile, if you don't mind it, people who do seem like jerks.
It's more like how you say it. "Hey Buddy, if you don't stop slurping, I am going to chew and then open my mouth wide to show you my handiwork." is very different from "I am leaving. You are so rude."
> The disgust is visceral, and hard to rationalize away.
The keyword is "friend" - someone who you can talk to; asking him not to do that as it is making you uncomfortable should be pretty easy.
Of course, anything will go when you're a foreigner (the so-called "gaijin smash"). But I can definitely see them taking offense when a fellow Japanese person makes this mistake.
> In Germany, I don't recall having a lot of problems with noise
Here in France all train cars are "quiet cars" and most people respect that.
Sometimes you come across somebody who insists on talking on their cellphone while seated (you're supposed to make your calls on the "platform" which is the space between cars), but it's rare and usually doesn't last.
>Here in France all train cars are "quiet cars" and most people respect that.
I wish it were true... I took the train last week and was in the same wagon as 4 "rednecks" who ate their lunch while drinking wine, chewing loudly and laughing. The whole wagon could hear what they were talking about. The SNCF employees didn't even care...
I am a regular train user and it is unfortunately pretty frequent occurrence.
In my search for quiet, I often carry a decibel meter around. Amtrak cars, even the quiet cars, have a constant 90 decibel background noise when in motion (measured with a C weighting). It seems like a lot of the train noise is in the low frequencies and the A weighting OSHA uses is the only thing keeping Amtrak out of violation.
Yeah, part of my point was that American train systems are old and awful and noisy. I had the pleasure of riding a smaller Deutsche Bahn commuter train once and the ambient noise had to be in the 50-60 dB range, if not lower.
Depends on your keyboard and force. For example, a MacBook is generally quieter than other laptops but then again once those keys get old they can get quite loose and clackety. What I can say for sure is that those train cars can be pretty damn quiet. I know the quiet car I ride in is possibly quieter than my own car. And when it's silent the ambient noise tends to sound even more faint until someone on the inside starts making some really annoying sounds. I'd also say its sometimes not so much about the volume itself but rather the type of sound. Someone talking on a cellphone is less annoying than a phome ringing which is less annoying than that damn texting keyboard "click" sound which is equally annoying as typing too hard.
Yes! This and the comment below points out the space bar is also a very loud key we can single out on all keyboards. I set my trackpad to use tap to click because I prefer it and it avoids that sound but I do occasionally click by pressing it. Now you've got me thinking how disturbing I might be with my occasional clicking on my MacBook Air on the quiet car.
I've not ridden Amtrak, just Caltrain, but as regards UK trains the answer is that background noise doesn't matter.
People generally talk loud enough to happily hear each other over any background noise. They tend not to notice, either.
As such, when businesspeople consider the quiet car somewhere for meetings because everywhere else has noise, everyone in the car hears exactly what they are discussing.
I'm on the bus at the moment on the way to work, I use a Lenovo Thinkpad Edge in my personal time, it's a decent machine and was within my budget at the time I bought it, but I agree, the keyboard can be extremely loud in quiet areas, but that's one of the reasons I like it.
My iMac at work has a nearly silent keyboard and it drives me up the walls, being so used to developing in my spare time on a loud machine.
Never had a problem here in Germany either. Smoking is luckily not allowed anymore, as well.
There is a quiet car, too, but it is hardly necessary. Talking on the cell phone loudly is frowned upon everwhere, even in the underground train -- at least I haven't seen too many people doing it. Just don't take the same trains the drunken soccer fans take (if you're not in the mood).
This is must be a somewhat American problem. I once was at a Cheescake factory there, where it was so loud we could hardly talk with each other. We hypothesized that they do this for a higher turnover.
The people in the Amtrak trains, subways or buses did not bother me -- it was more the screeching noises those old relics made. I would be extremely annoyed by music in a library though.
"This is must be a somewhat American problem. I once was at a Cheescake factory there, where it was so loud we could hardly talk with each other. We hypothesized that they do this for a higher turnover."
I've heard that the loudness in restaurants isn't meant to increase turnover - it's actually used to attract people to the restaurant. The average restaurant-goer in NYC seems to have an aversion to places that are quiet enough to carry on a normal conversation. They apparently find the noisy environment to be stimulating and exciting. There are even special sound systems designed for restaurants that amplify certain components of the ambient noise if the natural acoustics of the room aren't noisy enough.
I'm bad with restaurants in Manhattan, but Anella and Bozu are two favorites in Brooklyn.
I agree there are many loud restaurants in Manhattan, but that is mostly a factor of the bar and/or a large space (e.g., Buddakan). Look for places not trying to attract attention (a full curtain on the window, rather than trying to advertise their popularity / bar scene).
My main point was probably that Manhattan != NYC. :)
>We hypothesized that they do this for a higher turnover.
I can (anecdotally) confirm that many places do this. One place where my friend worked adjusted the background music volume based on the wait time, and I know of several restaurants by me where the waitresses will say that the music goes up as the place gets busy to persuade people to leave after eating.
I can confirm that. Using cell phones in public transportation was forbidden for a few years but is allowed now. People are usually pretty quiet in German trains. Many trains also have special areas for families with kids that are more noisy.
I've lived in both Germany and Australia, and my experience is the exact opposite -- at least in suburban trains, I don't think I ever used a long distance train in Australia. And those are okay in Germany. But suburban trains? The two couldn't be more different! Where I was (small town in Germany close to France and Melbourne, Victoria) there was screaming (!), loud music from cell phones and general obnoxious and ruthless behavior all the time in the local suburban trains in Germany, while it was heavenly quiet and relaxed and enjoyable in Melbourne.
I'm with you. But my Bose headphones cancel best the kind of sound that is easily ignored. Typing and talking go right through and even become more prominent against the quieter background. I found that full isolation can only be achieved by playing some music, which is better but still not ideal.
Anyone starting a Kickstart project for a better system can have my money.
Looking at some of the reviews, it sounds like this hardware has its limitations, namely that it does a poor job of blocking out sounds in the frequency of human voices, which is the main thing that jhandl seems to be looking for.
I use a pair of these ear muffs almost daily; they pretty much block out all sound well for me. Here are a few reviews for the product that address your concern:
"I use them while doing research in a library. It's unbroken silence despite screaming kids and adults talking into their cellphones. People no longer understand proper behavior in a library, but I don't care. I can't hear them. It's wonderful." http://www.amazon.com/review/RQBNEZ9CX3O19/
I have been using Chill[1] periodically in lieu of music for a few months. It has the typical generators (airplane, beach, city, etc) but also blue, brown, pink, violet, and white noise tracks. I like brown noise; it has the low-frequency rumble of an airplane but the higher frequencies also block out ambient noise. Great for working in an office.
I've found that more expensive in-ear headphones are significantly better at shutting out all external noise. But be prepared to spend some time playing with different pairs, plugs, and wear-styles (e.g. headphones dangling vs. wrapped over-ear) until you find one that you can handle for hours at a time.
The pair I have are effective enough at cutting out most noise that they're basically earplugs even with no music on and I can wear them for entire trans-atlantic/pacific flights.
My approach for international flights is a pair of circum-aural[1] noise cancelling headphones, with disposable foam earplugs inside them, and the music playing just loud enough to distract me from anything that gets past both the earplugs and the noise cancellation.
Where I am (Australia) OH&S regulations say workplace noise louder than 85dB averaged over 8hrs requires the employer to provide hearing protection[2]. The cabin of a 747 in flight is often louder than that, and for me it's usually a 13 or 14hr flight, so not using some form of hearing protection is almost certainly doing damage. But the best reason to wear protection is that I get off at the end of a 12+hr flight much more relaxed than when I don't have earplugs.
[1] big "DJ style" headphones with the cushions that surround/seal around the entire ear.
[2] I've heard, but never seen any actual evidence, that airlines operating in Australia have negotiated exemptions from the standard OH&S rules which would require cabin staff to fly wearing hearing protection.
In-ear plugs don't work for me, I can't even stand the soft squishy ones for 30 seconds. Given that I also can't sleep while sitting and I can't afford (and my company won't pay) business seats, I have to resort to pills. So the solution for me is Bose + pills.
Thanks, I might try them as they are not in-ear (which is what I can't stand). Chemical help for sleeping while sitting is still needed though, not that I mind.
Try listening to some binaural nature recordings instead of music. It's much less distracting. I find that they function as well as white noise, except that I don't get tired of listening to them for long periods of time.
http://soundtracker.comhttp://www.naturespace.com
Things aren't always like what they seem. Here's my perspective.
I use a ThinkPad that has a noisy keyboard. When I type on a Macbook Pro, my typing is silent. The noise in my case is because of keyboard design, not because of my typing force, I prefer the audible feedback. If I'm in a shared space where all I can hear is my typing, I try not to type.
I have slight breathing problems due to a small nasal passage. When I eat, I sometimes have to breathe through my mouth. I try not to, because eating with your mouth open is considered rude.
Loud typing is a symptom of the lack of private working space in the office. That means the company is too cheap to set up offices or good insulating cubicles for the developers.
As a loud typer, I appreciate the reminder that my typing can be annoying to people. I don't know what it is exactly, but I can't seem to get quiet. I've never even used a typewriter! I think it's because I don't type with the traditional method since I self-learned before I could be taught... My method uses fewer fingers which may force them to move faster and thus hit harder, on average.
I'm sorry, from those of us who type loud, to all of you.
I've never been, but have read that Germany has very strict laws governing when and where noise can be made. In fact, only 2 years ago there was an amendment to the law giving children in Berlin the right to make noise, but only during specified hours: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8520941.stm
At my internship last summer, several devs were partial to those super-clacky keyboards one can buy. I can't stand working without (or even with) headphones in places like cafes when loud conversations are going on around me, but I found the keyboard sounds very easy to tune out.
I might be a little biased considering I own one, but many people find the click clack sound produced by a keyboard with Cherry MX Blue switches to be quite relaxing.
As a loud typer myself, please let them know. I'm usually wearing my headphones and have no idea how loud my keyboard sounds are - and if I'm in a bad mood, it tends to get louder, without me being consciously aware of it. I wouldn't be offended if someone pointed out how much noise I'm generating, and I doubt they would be, either.
This would work especially well if your boss is willing to spring for quiet keyboards for them, and if they're willing to use 'em.
Yeah, back in high school people would constantly point out that I type too loudly. I think the Apple keyboards have helped a bit, still a bit noisy but not annoyingly like I probably would be on other keyboards.
>I sympathize with whoever criticized the guy for loud typing.
I actually don't mind typing: to me, it sounds like ideas. It's also regular enough to become part of the background, whereas something like music isn't, because it's too variable.
>my Bose noise cancelling headphones are worth their weight in gold.
I'm going to be that obnoxious guy: Amazon lists Bose QC 15s (the model I have) as 7.4 ounces. The spot-price for gold right now is about $1,700 per ounce. Are they really worth $12,580?
I hate to be the other obnoxious guy that responds to the self proclaimed obnoxious guy, but I see the quite a bit lately, even paraded in XKCD. Is there a significant group of people that absolutely abhors all rhetorical figures of speech? Or is it only specific ones, such as metaphors and hyperbole, with simile being mostly OK? Just curious.
> Is there a significant group of people that absolutely abhors all rhetorical figures of speech? Or is it only specific ones, such as metaphors and hyperbole, with simile being mostly OK? Just curious.
In medical circles it would be called "learning disability".
On a more serious note though, mocking people who use a lot of metaphors is a good way to try to make yourself look intellectually superior. I see it a lot these days and I find it very passive aggressive. Back in school people making those kinds of comments would be called smartasses and have their asses kicked for using that kind of language.
The deeper I get into writing, and what it means to write well, the harder it is. Reading Martin Amis's The War Against Cliche was a particularly pernicious moment for me. So was Lakoff and Johnson's Metaphors We Live By.
I think the question is this: does a rhetorical figure of speech help the reader or writer see the things being compared or figurized in a new way? If the answer is no, then perhaps we should look at those rhetorical things as literal, in order to remind ourselves of the power of rhetoric.
I favor metaphors and hyperbole like politicians favor hand-shaking and baby-kissing. But it to be done well.
Orwell, "Politics and the English Language", 1946:
"By using stale metaphors, similes, and idioms, you save much mental effort, at the cost of leaving your meaning vague, not only for your reader but for yourself. This is the significance of mixed metaphors. The sole aim of a metaphor is to call up a visual image. When these images clash -- as in The Fascist octopus has sung its swan song, the jackboot is thrown into the melting pot -- it can be taken as certain that the writer is not seeing a mental image of the objects he is naming; in other words he is not really thinking. "
"Never use a metaphor, simile, or other figure of speech which you are used to seeing in print."
It's funny how things like this can sit totally dormant in your mind for years and years, and at the first mention everything floods back. And just for a silly ST:TNG reference.
I lost a pair of these and I just replaced them. So I've bought two pairs in two years. To me the noise canceling is worth it. I also have an aviation headset from them that's lasted me a very long time so I like the quality. I don't consider them the best, I just really like them. The best would probably be a set from Sennheiser or Denon. I'm not an audiophile, I'm more of a silencephile.
It can be just as loud as people talking and (IMHO) can be harder to tune out. After all, we're used to hearing people talk all the time.
Oh and while I'm in the mood for ranting, people who eat with their mouths open--particularly when it's something crunchy--or who slurp in any way are going to be first up against the wall when the revolution comes.
I don't catch long distance trains in the US at all. I sometimes take the subway but more often than not you're just standing for 10-15 minutes. In Germany, I don't recall having a lot of problems with noise (although, on one train back from Oberhausen, the smoke was so thick you couldn't see one window from the other in a very Cheech and Chong moment). England varied but was generally fine.
What I'm not looking forward to is when cellphones become usable on planes because you know someone is going to sit there and talk loudly for the entire flight.
One tip though: my Bose noise cancelling headphones are worth their weight in gold.