Respectfully, i disagree. But, then when i really probe why i feel that, i think i simply have personally negative feelings against Jobs, and that of course isn't fair to fans of Jobs. It might sound like i'm discounting the good things that jobs indeed did accomplish, and which directly did help society...I'm not! I just feel like Jobs is that kid who - yes, does help - but others do LOTS of the work, but because he is the loudest kid, tends to get all the attention...clearly the issue is on my side; my personal feelings towards Jobs, and its not a fair assessment for whether he should or should not be considered an innovator...So i think i will respectfully stop commenting on this thread since i am of course not adding value, other than to express: i never liked Jobs...Which isn't helpful for this dialogue. So...Sorry, and thanks all!