I'm always ignored when I ask for help. Being a person who "takes it like a man" in a sense, as in absorbs these problems for greater overall execution, I'm always ignored when I bring up my problems. "Tough shit" is the general attitude. Unless I'm highly expressive or emotional nobody takes it seriously. But if I'm being that emotional it's already too late.

Squeaky wheel gets the oil. Absorbing problems for good overall execution benefits others, but they get used to it as normal and take it as granted after a while. Then they don't know what to do on change, because they have no experience with it.

It's worth looking into make support groups. There's various movements starting up support groups for men run by men, who are trying to break that stigma. I don't know where you are based but have a Google and you may find a local one.

Funny enough, I looked at my local meetups and the biggest one is run by a woman. It's probably a good idea anyway.

And if possible/available, talking to a therapist can be a huge help. For various reasons I don't talk about various serious issues to my nearest and dearest, and it's been really helpful to have someone to talk to every two weeks who is 1) not entangled with the various issues, 2) paid to listen, and 3) professionally trained to do so.

While, anything is probably better than nothing, I've found that it's crucial to find a therapist that one 'clicks' with. I wasted quite a bit of time sticking with a therapist who didn't help (and possibly made things worse, much as she meant well).

If a therapist is not an option, I also recommend support groups. In some ways those have been even /more/ of a help than a therapist, because the fact that they're not paid does matter, and the fact that it's a solution without an end-date comforted me.

As a thirty-something, 1) I wish that I looked for help earlier, and 2) I would do everything in my power to move to a different place if I couldn't find the support wherever I was. It's been /that/ helpful.

Not knowing your environment, trying to find other doctors could help.

A lot of practicians have surprisingly little knowledge or very old views on depression. Some will very strongly argue against medication for instance, while others try multiple simultaneous approach. Some will throw the same medication every time they hear "depression" and call it a day, while there is a variety of drugs on the market and a regular follow-up on the situation can help find ones that effectively work.

I have the same issue for physical problems. I don't like to complain and I'm not really expressive. Physical appearance may also play a role (I'm 1.95m/95kg.) I had a double hernia with sciatic nerve inflammation go undiagnosed for quite some time before I took my wife with me to the doc and she complained in my stead. In any case, I've been postponing going to a psychologist for exactly this reason: I'm convinced I won't be taken seriously.

> I'm convinced I won't be taken seriously.

As a fellow large male, I totally hear you. Getting empathy can be challenging.

WRT psychologists -- audition them. Schedule initial visits with 3, make all those visits, then see if you feel that one of them has listened and can help.

This inverts the power dynamic, at least to begin with. You're actively choosing someone who will work for you, and based on some of your own felt evidence. You don't have to worry about "making it work" with the 1 counselor you chose to begin with.

This is common practice. No good counselor will be surprised by it. Any who argue it can easily be dropped from your short list.

Baring your soul to 3 strangers sure can be daunting. I find it gets easier. And again, if it sucks with one of them, probably that's not the counselor for you.

I've seen multiple therapists and while every time I assumed the worst, every single time I was surprised by how seriously my issues were taken, or at least by how willing I was to believe this to be the case :). And I'm an incredibly paranoid/suspicious person!

I want to emphasize especially that it's okay to take medication. It's not "cheating", you're not going to get graded at the end on how you beat the depressive episode. They're far from perfect and you may have to try multiple times to find one that's working for you. I know how uncomfortable it can be to get off of SSRIs (brain zaps aren't fun at all!), but imho even considering them as part of the package, it still beats being down at the bottom by far.

If you don't want to take medication, that's okay too. But make sure it's not just your depression making you not want to.

And the usual advice applies to depression as well: don't worry about telling your doctor. They won't judge you, they've heard it before, they can help you. It can feel like a personal failure and as if "it's not like other people's depression, they have real problems, I don't, I just can't figure out what's wrong with me", but that's part of it.

And also don't beat yourself up if you're self-medicating. That's pretty normal. Get help, get more effective medication. You're not a lazy alcoholic, you're depressed and you're looking for any straw that can offer some support. And if your doctor tells you to stop self-medicating before they will help you, talk to another doctor, they have it backwards. Don't give up.

I would be very hesitant to recommend someone experiencing depression or anxiety as a result of our current state of affairs to seek pharmaceutical medications. Certainly, there is no shame in it. Indeed, I'd actively support the pursuit of medication for anyone experiencing persistent suicidal ideations, have become psychologically incapable of performing day-to-day activities still required of them, or have begun abusing more harmful substances in their stead.

That said, some time ago, I was listening to the BBC's today show, and I recall being profoundly disturbed when they aired a piece about the NHS either recommending or considering a recommendation for the prescription of antidepressants to people having trouble coping with the trajectory of their society (I wish I could provide a citation, but it was a live broadcast).

For many, COVID has sapped what little vitality and opportunities they had for joy left in their lives from their lives. Their purpose, perhaps defined by a job they can no longer perform, or their hobbies contingent upon meeting with others. Maybe they're just terrified they won't be able to feed or house their families in a month or even a year's time.

This is a shitty situation, and people quite rightfully should feel shitty about it. Indeed, many of in the lower classes should be outright livid that they have to bear the brunt of not only the disease but the externalities of society's response to it.

We seem to have collectively forgotten that negative feeling have value. Anger, sadness, and loneliness are as equally valid and important signalling mechanisms as joy, content, and love.

If you're living through hard times, it's natural to exhibit symptoms of depression for a week, a month, or two. It's a not just natural, it's desirable, because it tells you that something's in the world's gone profoundly wrong. It's not easy, and as anyone who's lived a hard live, or found ways deal with moderate or intermittent depression (without drugs) will tell you, it takes time to develop resiliency and coping mechanisms to deal with that.

I'll reiterate:

There's no shame in seeking out medical help if you truly can't cope with how things are, or are losing yourself and your desire to live.

But I think it's important to think deeply on it before you take that step.

> If you're living through hard times, it's natural to exhibit symptoms of depression for a week, a month, or two.

Absolutely! But that's also not what I'd suggest medication for (well, maybe I'd suggest recreational drugs, but not anti-depressants), because it's not depression.

In my opinion, there's quite the difference between depression on the one side and feeling overpowered and broken because of external circumstances on the other, and I wouldn't suggest trying to fix the latter by pretending it's the former and medicating accordingly.

It's hard to tell the two apart from your own perspective, especially because they can both be true, you can be depressed and go through shitty times at the same time. At the very least if it does persist, don't settle for "my life is just shit, this is just a normal reaction to that shit", go see a doctor. And at the absolute very least, if friends suggest that it may be depression, consider that they may have a better view of you-six-months-ago vs you-today, because they don't see you every second of every day.

Depression clouds your judgement, and in my opinion, you're not gaining anything from suffering through it. It's not a great challenge that's been put in your way and when you finally beat it, you're a stronger person. In retrospect, at least for me, but some friends have shared similar opinions with me, it's just time you've lost, where you cannot remember anything from other than feeling terrible, thinking about suicide, possibly harming yourself and silently hoping that a bus will jump out from nowhere and end your suffering. There's no medal at the end, having gone through it once does not make you immune, and it can take years to get better, and maybe you never do.

I don't know whether I would've listened to anyone if they had told me to go see a doctor, but I wish somebody would've tried, and I hadn't spent the better part of my twenties just suffering for no reason. I'm diagnosed as bi-polar, but with much less pronounced manias, and now when I sense that I'm sliding down, I'm very active about stopping that slide, and if it doesn't stop quickly, I've made it a habit to go see a doctor before I think I need to, because I've learned that I might not be able to make that call if I'm past a certain point.

But keep in mind antidepressants aren't a panacea and can even make things worse. My girlfriend has tried medication like antidepressants and anti conception, but basically anything that changes her brain chemistry sent her spiraling down even more.

Turns out she has ADHD and that class of medication is much better at stabilizing her mood.

The prescription system for these things is very .. unscientific? Because there's no good diagnostics other than asking the patient questions about how they feel. So it ends up like the optician's "can you see better with this or this?" except the minimum timetable for most of the medications is several months to "try".

Isn't antidepressants in America one of the reasons of the opioid crisis...?

I assume that's a genuine question and that you're not trolling.

Opioids are a very different class of drugs than anti depressants (including medication to treat anxiety).

While people with mental issues may use opioids for self medication, no reasonable psychiatrist would ever prescribe such medication for psychological issues.

Oxy and their ilk were massively pushed by Purdue and their "colleagues" as a non-addictive pain relief if applied correctly.

They lied, of course, and that's where the US is now with the opioid crisis, since those drugs were massively over-prescribed.

It can't be mentioned enough that if you have serious mental issues then appropriate medication may be one of the pillars to help you out of the deepest circles of hell.

While it maybe a crutch (sometimes temporary, sometimes long term) it can be immensely helpful if properly prescribed and monitored and seriously be the difference between life and death.

edit: slight clarification

No, that would largely be Purdue Pharmaceuticals misleading doctors regarding dosage and timing along with an unhealthy dose of fentanyl from China.

Some medications used for mental health can be addictive, and some can have "discontinuation effects" (these are important and unpleasant but are not really addiction). The addictive medications are the benzodiazepines and the "z drugs" (zopiclone, zolpidem, etc (sleeping meds)).

I think mental health medication is good and useful, and I think SSRI / SNRI / NASA type meds are very good, but useful questions (for any medication) are "What happens if we do nothing?" and "what are the side effects of taking it, or stopping taking it?"

These medications are not linked to the opioid crisis. The causes for that are complex, but they include over-prescribing of strong opioids for mild pain over many years.

Antidepressants have nothing to do with opioids. Almost none of those who are still on the market even have the slightest addictive potential. In fact, even products which only had very minor such potential have been withdrawn, even though they were much milder than drugs on the market such as benzos or opioids.

Also note that opioids are depressants, though that is not an antonym for antidepressant.

I would caution against using any sort of chemicals, try to exhaust all other options first. You don't want the sort of problem where you feel unlike your own self without some substance, not to mention that most of them basically reduce you to a zombie.

Sleepwalking through life isn't my idea of living.

I think this is an unfair characterization and borderline misinformation. Medication can be net positive given severe symptoms. Every person is different, and medication for psychological issues should not be a first line of defense, but it can be helpful and potentially life saving.

When you make a blanket statement like “medication will turn you into a zombie”, not only are you wrong, but you could be turning people away from a potentially life saving treatment.

I qualified that statement with "most of", and if anything comments like yours promote laissez faire attitude towards pharmaceuticals, the consequences of which are disastrous - as can be seen by the opioid epidemic etc.

Look, drugs work. They work incredibly well for some people. You absolutely should avoid them if you can help it. Makes sense, no?

Your qualifier “most of” makes little difference. It’s wrong and you couldn’t possibly know that anyway. I don’t care to share my own personal anecdotes about my experiences with various psychotropic medications but I will say that being a “zombie” has seldom been a side effect of them.

Bringing up opiates in a thread about psychiatric medication is either a deliberate red herring or a clear indicator of your ignorance on this subject. Either way you should not be putting out misinformation in a topic about potentially life-threatening medical disorders.

> Look, drugs work. They work incredibly well for some people. You absolutely should avoid them if you can help it. Makes sense, no?

I agree with this, but it’s a different statement that what I was reacting to. Your previous statement was wrong, and it’s still wrong after you tried to dig in further.

I apologize if I came off as vitriolic (truly), but I found the "zombies" statement to be very offensive, given my own run-ins with severe depression in the past.

There are problems with statements like that:

1. Turns away people who might otherwise have no better treatment option ("What's the point of living if I'll just be a zombie anyway?")

2. It comes off as judgmental which has an isolating effect to people who are on the treatment. Hearing something like this could lead a person to question their sanity when they'd otherwise be okay (aka triggering, maybe you triggered me!)

3. It's just wrong.

Antidepressant drugs generally don't turn people into zombies at commonly-prescribed therapeutic doses. At very high doses they can have an emotionally blunting effect and even this is preferable in some cases. There are side effects and no one would argue that it's ideal to be on these drugs, I totally agree with you on that, but there are worse things than being on a drug.

I think you just have to be really careful when you throw blanket statements around on these topics because the people they can influence are not feeling their best and at much higher risk for suicide than people who wouldn't care because they wouldn't need drug treatment anyway. Personally I hope to never deal with antidepressants again, but in the past they've helped me get through times when I felt otherwise out of options. And somehow I escaped turning into a zombie :)

> You absolutely should avoid them if you can help it.

The issue is knowing whether you can "tough it out". Will you make it through without medication? Will you make it through in a reasonable time frame?

It's a valid point, but I don't think it's a good idea to judge that for yourself. It's very similar to anti-biotics. It's a good idea to avoid them in general and not take them when you don't need to or when they won't do anything. But it's a terrible idea to want to make that call if you don't have the training. And it's a bad idea to figure "ah, I'm better, I'll just drop these now" after a day or two.

I personally believe that the "zombie-like state" is blown out of proportion, and I'm certain that even with side-effects, anti-depressants are still much nicer than going through a major depressive episode.

This is dangerously wrong.

I went way too long before trying an antidepressant because I was worried I'd lose who I was, that I'd face social stigma, and that I was somehow cheating.

Turns out they've made me more expressive, energetic, and connected to others in my life. The biggest effect is an increased ability to break out of mental ruts much more easily.

> Turns out they've made me more expressive, energetic, and connected to others in my life.

Sounds like you did lose who you were, medications change your personality and that's not something I want for myself. More power to you for undergoing that change, though.

Your personality is changing all the time. You've already lost yourself from 5 years ago.

Even putting aside the question of whether one can lose one's self, what is so special about you that you can't bear to lose it? I don't understand this romantic ideal of self.

What? Depression changed who I was. Anxiety changed who I was. I didn't lose who I was as a result of medication, I regained what I had lost.