Similar thing happened to me with PayPal, buyer got to keep the item, and got a refund (by doing a chargeback on their CC) and I got billed the amount + 15% of fees and punishment.
I provided exhausting proof of delivery and that there was no contact or complaints from the buyer, but they didn't care. They said, since it's a chargeback, they HAVE to give them their money back. The buyer was a client of Commonwealth Bank of Australia.
Ironically, when I tried doing a chargeback on a transaction as a buyer, I got denied after waiting for 30 days for a reply, and had to pay a fee for an "untruthful claim". The bank is Erste Bank in Serbia. In my opinion my claim was valid, as the seller did not reply to me at all.
Interestingly about chargeback, I've noticed the same. I tried to file a chargeback with my bank in France and got denied despite it being a valid claim and me providing all the documentation for it.
But, when I used my US credit card to file a chargeback it went through fine and there was no issue. I wonder if some countries are more lax with charge backs?
Yes, it seems to me that USA (and in my case Australia) have extremely pro-customer payment protection. Europe, especially outside of the EEA, is very pro-bank and anti-customer in the specific niche of card payments.
The explanation I get is that if a card payment was verified by the customer with 3D Secure, it is considered valid and cannot be challenged. Which is true, the customer did enter their personal password on the page, and then the code received by SMS that's valid for 30 seconds.
What the banks neglect to consider is a non-cooperating merchant that refuses to return money that was paid under a sales contract and specific conditions, i.e. "I am buying a light green colored desk lamp with frosted glass", and receiving a broken product, or "Item significantly not as described" -- counterfeit product, or a pink ceiling lamp with transparent glass. Banks in the USA almost always take the customer's side.
Interesting to note (because of the proximity and similarity between Canada and USA, vs. say Germany or Spain or Russia), Canadian banks, as far as I know (from friends there), do not take the customers' side if there is no doubt in the security of the payment process and the validity of the authorization, regardless of the claims by the customer.
My guess would be that under EU protection you can’t deny having willingly provided the money, and ask the bank to take it back just because you don’t feel it was worth it anymore.
The claim would go through the police or a formal fraud complaint, and you’d be basically pursuing the fraudster in small claims.
> The explanation I get is that if a card payment was verified by the customer with 3D Secure, it is considered valid and cannot be challenged.
Was this with a credit card or a debit card?
At least with my (European) bank the above is only true for debit cards, while credit card payments can also be chargebacked on contract disputes with the seller.
In Serbia it is the same, the protections fall under the card issuer (MasterCard/VISA). I then went ahead and read up on MasterCard's Zero Liability procedure, and asked the bank again. They again lied and pretended I misunderstood the document. So, yeah, protection is apparently the same for credit and debit cards, and it's basically none.
To submit a chargeback you physically have to go into the bank office, and write a statement, sign at least 5 papers, and wait 30 days for a REPLY. If they approve it, wait 15 days to get the money back, but they can extend it up to 45 days, for a total 75 days of agony and hell.
What is the worst thing to me is that MasterCard/VISA rules should be the same worldwide, and at least for MasterCard, the rules are the same on the Serbia-specific website (https://www.mastercard.rs/sr-rs.html), yet every bank lies it's way into non-compliants with hand-wavy statements about their own terms. Additionally, I pay for a MasterCard Gold which is 3x the price of the regular card, so I could evade this bullit, yet I'm in the same problem as everyone else.
US has really strong laws for consumers with credit cards. The consumer is presumed right and it is up to everyone else in the chain to return their money first thing. Then the other party has the burden of proof for arguing against the chargeback.
It was a credit card. The specific issue was that I bought a plane ticket on edreams and was supposed to get 100 euros discount which was shown on their webpage but I ended up paying the price without the discount and the email didn't show the discount either. Back then there was no 3d secure check, so I didn't get to confirm the amount until after it was debited.
Some merchants certainly are. And in GP's case, PayPal might be playing the role of merchant, since they technically took the payment. I wonder if they just offer refunds to avoid having to accept chargebacks as such.
Yes, PayPal is the merchant, and as the CSR in the Ireland call center explained to me, they HAVE to issue the refund, or they risk extreme fines (the representative also told me PayPal could "lose the license to accept payments", but I doubt that, given their size. Regular merchants would, but PayPal is too valuable, so it would just get extreme fines and higher processing fees).
I believe this to be a case of telephone (no pun...scratch that, pun definitely intended). That sounds plausible, so the CSR probably believes it and regurgitated it. But chargebacks do not signify immediate fines (or else a merchant would never take cards!). An inability to counter chargebacks with evidence of your compliance is what gets a fine. If you swindle your customers and they file chargebacks, you have a problem. On the other hand, if you have a (or had a) customer who tried to game the system, but you have proof of purchase, good faith attempts to resolve, and written rules that are clear, conspicuous, and reasonable, then you can fight them successfully. PayPal just doesn't care, and apparently neither does their merchant bank.
This is recurring theme with PayPal and some US citizens are perfectly aware that when it comes to dispute they'll get preferential treatment versus non-US based seller and money returned no matter what.
This mechanism is quite often used for frauds and unaware entrepreneurs can be robbed out of money - PayPal will refund money, close case without hesitation. I think that only solution would be to use court route but in some cases equipment cost may be lower than attorney and court related costs (in addition to seller not being used to procedures, not aware of what to do).
Ironically, when I tried doing a chargeback on a transaction as a buyer, I got denied after waiting for 30 days for a reply, and had to pay a fee for an "untruthful claim". The bank is Erste Bank in Serbia. In my opinion my claim was valid, as the seller did not reply to me at all.