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OK so speech has begun 100,000 years ago (perhaps earlier). My point stands: Would humans without poetry not be considered intelligent? Hardly.


I didn't know we had any idea when speech started or even what form of proto-speech preceded and when it could be said it evolved to speech.

Homo Erectus emerged 2 millions years ago, I'm not aware of anything that says speech couldn't have started during his reign.

Do you have any source for that 100,000 years figure?


That’s a well known story. Speech beyond mooing means complex bones and muscles working together.

https://www.discovermagazine.com/planet-earth/could-neandert...


All I take from this article is that there's no consensus among experts whether speech was possible for homo sapiens' ancestors.

> Based on these results, most researchers agree Neanderthals were capable of emitting and hearing complex vocalizations. However, they disagree over the implications. While some consider the findings indicative of speech-based language in Neanderthals, others propose these features could have evolved for other reasons, like singing. Neanderthals may have lacked the cognitive abilities for language, but possessed the physical anatomy for musical calls to attract mates or sooth infants.

Seems to imply that speech was physically possible for neanderthals (and by extension, their common ancestor with homo sapiens), but there's no agreement among experts that it means that neanderthals did speak.


That is largely irrelevant, as there is still the possibility of sign languages.


My point had to do with writers of great poetry being (arguably) intelligent, not with claiming that non-poets (or non-poetry readers) are not intelligent.

In other words, writing great poetry is a sign of intelligence, but not a requirement for intelligence.

Conversely, being good at problem solving, tool use, and planning might also be signs of intelligence, but maybe not requirements for intelligence either.


>My point stands: Would humans without poetry not be considered intelligent? Hardly.

They would be considered less intelligent than humans that have developed speech, and later poetry and other refined forms of expression.

The same way humans that painted their caves are considered more intelligent than the humanoids that proceeded them, that weren't as able to express themselves.


I don't agree. Perhaps an entity that is more intelligent than humans will determine that poetry is not worth it and there is a more advanced art form it uses instead. Nowadays, most of us are not painting caves.




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