Really depends of the ergonomics of the language. In erlang/elixir/beam langs etc, its incredibly ergonomic to write code that runs on distributed systems.
you have to try really hard to do the inverse. Java's ergonomics, even with Akka, lends its self to certain design patterns that don't lend itself to writing code for distributed systems.
We have a really talented engineer on our team (in the US), who has a green card and everything. He's taking a job in Brussels, he said very plainly hes not sticking around to find out what happens next. I don't blame him.
If you are able to make it work in Belgium it's a great move. Free education, free healthcare, 20 days PTO minimum, public transport, 15 weeks of maternity leave, labor protections, basically no crime, no guns, no weekly school shootings, total tax rate of at most 60%.
This person is leaving a regime where the physical safety and liberties of immigrants like him/her are in jeopardy, and HN starts a 50+ comment thread about high taxes. Peak commentary.
When we lived in Cal decades ago, taxes weren't all that much lower. Federal taxes and state taxes (higher) on a larger salary, lots of social security and other fiddly little taxes and 100-200/check for 20% of my health insurance. The only good thing about social security is that while you pay a more the benefits are larger 62+. I'm trying to remember, but like 25% for the feds, 8-10% for the state, 6% for social security and the health insurance. Call it high 40's or so, maybe 50%? Yeah, sales tax was lower vs. vat but I thought Cal had about the highest sales tax in the states?
It all depends on what the aggregate deductions that are outside your control sum to, and what you get for the money.
In Ontario, it would be about 38%, and that’d include healthcare. Canada is very efficient though. At least a decade ago, Canada’s non-defense spending per person was less than the US’s.
In Germany it would be about 44% total. Of course, in Germany, $200k is a top 2% income. In California it’s only a top 8% income.
That's what's directly taken out of your check right? But how much more do you pay after that in other taxes? And if you go even further, how much higher are the prices of everything that you purchase due to the various taxes involved in their production?
Does your Germany figure include healthcare and church tax? That could push it over 50%. Though church tax is optional and you can go private for healthcare.
Yes. Apart from the countries which live off of foreign direct investment, taxes are generally pretty high.
Also, in many EU states, companies contribute to social security. In some this is indexed to profits, but on others this is indexed directly to wages, so if you count that bit, taxes directly attributable to your income can easily exceed 60% of what a company pays out.
I don't know if Belgium is using that loophole when counting the 60%, though.
>Apart from the countries which live off of foreign direct investment, taxes are generally pretty high.
I have no idea about this. Can you explain what you mean and give some examples of such countries ?
>Also, in many EU states, companies contribute to social security. In some this is indexed to profits, but on others this is indexed into wages, so if you count that bit, taxes directly attributable to your income can easily exceed 60% of what a company pays out.
True. Some EU countries also tax the gross salary the employer has to give you before it gets to you, which is in bad faith not included in payslips. So when you negotiate your 60k gross wage, it's actually costing your employer something like 72k Euros. I hate this shady practice.
Their inward FDI stock to GDP ratio is around 250%, which is about 4× the EU average; and Ireland does this with a decently sized economy.
And then there's Luxembourg (1400%) and Malta (2000%) which arguably do much “worse” but are comparatively tiny.
I didn't do the math for every EU country. Those were just some of the few that came to mind. For instance, Cyprus has similar values to Ireland, but the Irish economy is 15× bigger.
When there's a lot of foreign money going through your economy and you can tax it to moderate amounts, you get to offer lower rates to your own citizens.
Which is great, but obviously doesn't scale if every country tries to do the same.
> I have no idea about this. Can you explain what you mean and give some examples of such countries ?
Probably countries like Ireland, Montenegro, Belize, etc which act as tax havens for foreign corporations. Or Singapore, while also a tax haven, acts as a center for regional trade.
They could also mean resource rich countries that sell mineral rights to foreign corporations, who made investments in infrastructure in order to facilitate their operations, and they pay back dividends to the state, which offset the tax burden of the local population.
If an American factored in the totality of their tax burden, it would be pretty high. The USA has the benefit of higher incomes and a gigantic population, so there's some economies of scale. But even so, add up all of income tax (federal, state, city, county), sales taxes, property taxes, tariffs, tolls, etc and the % is already pretty high. After factoring the cost of benefits that are free/subsidized in other countries, and the cost probably averages out to the same.
Of course, European countries can also have those same consumption taxes. But I'm not sure if OP factored that in.
> sales taxes, property taxes, tariffs, tolls, etc and the % is already pretty high.
These taxes you mentioned (ignoring income taxes) are even higher in many EU countries than the US, especially sales tax. Same for tolls, tariffs, etc. they're all higher here and they're increasing them and adding new taxes on top, because EU coffers are being bled dry right now with the economy, trade wars, and actual wars going on.
Also, commodity products and services are generally more expensive here than in the US too. Like, I see on youtube the hobby stuff Americans do in their garage with home labs, electronic measuring equipment, power tools and stuff, all gotten nearly for free on craigslist, but if I want to replicate their setups it would cost way more here(from a smaller wage too), not to mention buying a house with a garage in Europe is very much of out of budget to most working class in Europe to begin with.
All this stuff being so cheap and readily available is probably why Americans in their garages have been so much more inventive and entrepreneurial than Europeans.
>After factoring the cost of benefits that are free/subsidized in other countries, and the cost probably averages out to the same.
True, but a lot of free stuff you get back from the government is sometimes of low quality compared to what you pay for in taxes on a high income, due to never being enough money for everything everyone needs, and not being able to attract and keep qualified and motivated workers to stay in the public system when they can earn more privately, and it's only been getting worse and worse since Covid and Ukraine, with no signs of improving.
For example, I am now paying ~1000 Euros for private physiotherapy after my accident, since the free government one is abysmal, which I am forced to pay for anyway out of my salary even though it's useless.
Another example, after my jaw surgery at the public hospital here they just strap cold packs to your face like in WW2, while in the US, my ex-boss who went through a similar procedure at a hospital there they had specialized head cooling devices for your post-op recovery, instead of medieval ice packs, while also being free of charge from his employer insurance. So you might pay more in the US for health insurance, but you also get more in return.
Overall I think I'd still prefer living here than in the US, but there's valid reasons why immigration to the US, and especially the success of immigrants there from an integration and financial perspective, is so high compared to here despite all the issues the US has.
In Brussels? Over half your net income would go to rent. If you are frugal then maybe you can get it to work out. This is not the type of income where you eat out every week.
providing healthcare and education are costs easily overlooked by most americans. But the reality is, these are costs borne by americans as well. and likely at a higher rate: americans pay more per capitia on both of those versus most other nations.
The top marginal tax rate in 2024 (assessed 2025) was 50%. But that's not the total tax take - that's the marginal rate of tax for income above 48320 euro.
This is not easy to compare. When you take into account all the costs up to and after retirement this is another perspective. The cost of life is another factor.
And then of course quality of life, but that's very individual.
Absolutely not. What a depressing country. Soulless people. Literally.
Try Belgium in winter.
And today with the European white guilt it's full of Africans who hate not only their people , but European traditions and culture. This is the reality.
What you listed for the past 10 years in Belgium is an average week in Chicago.
And Chicago had 2853 gun violence incidents in 2024. On a population of 2.7 million. Belgium had 184 incidents on a population of 11.8 million. That is about 67 times more incidents.
>What you listed for the past 10 years in Belgium is an average week in Chicago.
Wait a second friend, first you claim "basically no crime, no guns", then when confronted with the facts, instead of taking accountability and correcting, you move the goalposts to some high-crime US city.
I'm sure Brussels is super safe if you use Mogadishu as the point of comparisons, but if we were to keep the discussion in good faith and stick to comparisons with EU cities, my eastern european city has literally zero crime and guns making Belgium look like a warzone by comparison.
We have literally zero people killed by suicide explosives, guns or machetes compared to Brussels. How can people look at those crimes and go like "yeah, it's not so bad, you only have a relatively small chance of being killed" ?
> Wait a second friend, first you claim "basically no crime, no guns", then when confronted with the facts, instead of taking accountability and correcting, you move the goalposts to some high-crime US city.
OP is right, if those are the worst things to happen in the past 12 years, that's effectively 0 crime.
Especially when you consider that so much of what you listed were actually terrorists attacks conducted by an organization that hasn't conducted a foreign terror attack since winning control of their own territory from foreign occupiers.
>OP is right, if those are the worst things to happen in the past 12 years, that's effectively 0 crime.
If that's "zero crime" from your frame of reference, then what are the cities that have actual zero crime? -1000 crime? NaN?
I'd also be curious to know, if for example you or a family member would have been a victim in one of those violent incidents that don't happen in other EU cities, if you'd still have considered it "zero crime".
Is it one of those cases that when people see so much violent crime it's just a statistic that they had waive it easily? Because I can't.
Then please argument using logic why it's obvious. I explained why it isn't oblivions, as per HN rules.
Subjectively sure, each to his own, it might be obvious to you if you're ideologically aligned with the poster, but for good faith debate, you'll need to add actual arguments to convince the other people of your take. Imagine telling the judge "it's obvious your honor" as your only argument to why you're in the right.
>As a passerby, I'm honestly not sure what pedantic hill you think you're dying on.
No hill dying here, I'm just pushing for facts over blind ideologies.
I meant compared to the US it has basically no crime. Total gun incidents in the US is 10x more than Belgium.
And yes obviously there are guns in Belgian society but with no guns I was referring to how regular people don't walk around with guns. If you play football and your ball enters someone yard you don't have to worry about getting shot.
> I'm sure Brussels is super safe if you use Mogadishu as the point of comparisons
I believe their point was that Brussels is “super safe” compared to Chicago. 67 times fewer gun incidents is quite a lot.
I live in Dublin, Ireland, which is a lot smaller than Brussels, and when there is a shooting it gets on the news. You can imagine how amused I was coming from São Paulo that a full-on gang war was going on when I arrived here and 4 people had been shot in the previous year.
A friend of mine who also came from São Paulo, a trauma surgeon, had to change specialty here because there simply isn’t enough work.
People need to take the name Chicago out of their mouths. If a message board thread is a poker game, bet the bank when someone tries to make a political argument using "Chicago" that they've never set foot here. Someone who grew up in Brussels would be approximately as safe in Chicago as they would anywhere in the United States --- less safe than in Brussels, because of overall automobile and firearms deaths in America, but no less safe than in any major city.
(In fact, your life expectancy in Cook County is several years higher than in the rural south.)
The gun violence in Chicago is tightly constrained to places and populations unfamiliar to the median Belgian. Chicago is a city of neighborhoods and structurally segregated by almost a century of redlining and "urban renewal" that created hyperconcentrated pockets of crime. It's a human tragedy and fully worth dunking on, but it has nothing whatsoever to do with how safe a visitor would be to the city.
(Chicago is also not even in the top 10 in US cities by index crimes, but whatever).
Like I argumented before, comparisons with random high crime cities across the pond are in bad faith, which is why i proposed sticking only to EU cities to make the comparison fair, and Brussels does fairly bad at that level.
If you insist to go this route, you can definitely find cities even in the US with less violent crime than Brussels.
Because it ignores the fact a white European, the vast vast majority of Belgium, won't actually experience that kind of homicide rate in the USA if you pluck them out of Belgium and dumped them there.
If you look at places in US with similar white European demographics (New Hampshire at <2 per 100k) the homicide rate isn't that much worse than Belgium (~1.2 per 100k).
The best predictor of being a victim of violence in the USA is to be black, the ~second best predictor is to be in a state with a high proportion of black people. If you are in a state that is ~as white as Belgium, the rate goes way way down.
Well said. After reading your comment and ruminating on it a bit, I think people handwaive the violent crime in Brussels since native Belgians (and possibly other well off immigrants) aren't very likely to live in Brussels city that's only 22% native Belgian and 78% foreign born.
I expect small cities and towns in the suburbs, where native Belgians are a majority, to have virtually zero violent crime, which would flatten out the crime spike of Brussels into good looking national averages.
>>he said very plainly hes not sticking around to find out what happens next.
Can't blame him, US residency really is a like a game of high attrition. Its your classic up or out scenario.
Some times even a passport doesn't guarantee a stay. Sooner or later, you fall ill, lose a home, have a divorce. Its a unique combination of extreme luck, work, health and many other factors several of which are totally outside of your control.
I agree. Having children does make ones priorities very cut and dry. I found it a lot easier to "adult" once I had children. My Friends, at the time often asked, "Is having children hard?" I often replied, in the beginning at least, "Children are easy, it's everything else that is hard."
Indeed, it is society's expectations that are hard.
I moved to the middle of nowhere after my kids were born. One day I let my child walk home "alone" from school, for the portion that is on our own property, and of course as soon as you do that a fucking Karen will randomly pop out of nowhere, and start interrogating the child. It is like clockwork. You could be 100 miles from civilization and as soon as you do something someone somewhere disagrees with, a fucking Karen (and even in a minivan, down rugged rural dirt roads, how the fuck did she get there?) will magically be there that exact second with a cell phone at the ready to call CPS. Thankfully I was able to stop her before that happened, as I was actually watching from behind the bushes, which in itself is shameful but saved my ass.
I've been using Alpha(as my main driver!) for a year now, there's been a few hiccups here and there but its been very good. I prefer this to Gnome.
It's my main driver for software development, it was initially a dual boot system with windows, but I found that I could use Steam with very little configuration and could do all my gaming in linux(Cosmic DE/PopOS, I have a Nvidia GPU) as well. Works out of the box with Bigwig Studio and my Soundcard (Ultralite mk5)
I use a mix of the Cosmic store and nix for packages and programs.
I don't need to use windows ever again for anything and it makes me very happy.
I live a 20 minute walk away. I never tire of looking at it. When friends come to visit I usually skip the touristy stuff but I will always accompany them to go see the Sagrada Família.
you have to try really hard to do the inverse. Java's ergonomics, even with Akka, lends its self to certain design patterns that don't lend itself to writing code for distributed systems.