Context on the first one, she wasn't jailed for the post itself. She pleaded guilty (against her own legal advice apparently) to the crime of inciting racial hatred which carries a prison sentence.
There were other people also arrested at the time who did not plead guilty to this and were not charged.
Also she did call for a hotel filled with migrants to be set on fire while people were actively trying to do just that.
So you folks think just because it's internet we should be able to insult and call for racial action? Maybe you think in real life that should be acceptable too?
I support free speech through any media, including all noncommercial speech not including:
- defamation (with extra lenience for speech about public figures)
- evidence of child sex abuse
- incitement to imminent lawless action likely to cause disorder
Even those few exceptions are dangerous to liberty. Certainly anything else is too easily twisted into political censorship.
For example, under the guise of fighting "hate speech", the EU has already used the DSA to censor disfavored political speech like, "I think that LGBTI ideology, gender ideology, transgender ideology are a big threat to Slovakia, just like corruption"[0].
And yes, people obviously have the right to insult their politicians. It's honestly perplexing to encounter someone defending an early morning house raid because the guy called a politician a "professional moron". Are you actually Robert Habeck??
Even here on HN insulting other posters gets you banned. Same in many US media. There's quite a discrepancy between what people claim and the reality on the field, why you think? Yes I'm aware I'm shifting focus from Europe to the US, but you know, who should cast the first stone...
Private companies should have the freedom to ban/censor whatever content on their platforms they want. I’d prefer if they don’t, but we shouldn’t force governments to prevent companies from creating their own rules about how people can use their own software
Governments however should not interfere with citizen’s freedom of speech - there should be no fines/arrests for insulting politicians. Otherwise those governments are actually authoritarian and repressive.
Allowing private companies to do anything they want, when there are only a few large private companies, makes them a shadow state. Europe is much more willing to restrict companies from becoming shadow states. If they make a law that says bank transfers must be used for large payments (or if that becomes de facto true) they also make a law that says banks must give accounts to everyone.
It's 100% acceptable in real life that the whole concept of free speech. Seriously you can say shit like that all day every day in the USA and the cops probably won't even bother you.
Probably here lies the entire chasm between the US and Europe. In Europe insulting people on the street is not considered acceptable, also spreading neonazi propaganda and everything - ACLU or not (btw ACLU is also an US thing). So the US will jump at the idea of containing someone who publishes threats and insults, while the European will, well, try to contain them. I'm an European and call that respect for your co citizens, something not understandable for the US. Maybe that's also why social-democracy is here so well established, because we believe in a community, while the US advocates the person against everybody else. Just thinking loud.
So will Americans, and North Koreans. What is freedom of speech? Is it the right to say absolutely anything, anywhere, any time, because you don't have that in America.
> Meanwhile a US citizen was jailed for a meme quoting Trump after Kirk death.
And that was wrong, too. Also newsworthy because it is so unusual.
> First link
I think it's probably legal under US jurisprudence, but fine, you can have that one. How about the guy who got raided for calling Robert Habeck a "professional moron"? Or the 170 other people raided in Germany for their online speech?
Germany – Robert Habeck insult raids (2024–2025): Multiple citizens faced police raids, investigations, fines, or suspended sentences (jail risk if violated) for online posts calling Green politician Robert Habeck derogatory names like "idiot" or "moron," or sharing mocking memes, under Section 188 enhancing penalties for insulting politicians.
https://www.dw.com/en/germany-greens-habeck-presses-charges-...
Germany – Friedrich Merz "Pinocchio" case (2025–2026): A pensioner faced criminal investigation (potential fine or jail under Section 188) for a Facebook post calling Chancellor Friedrich Merz "Pinocchio," prosecuted as an insult likely to impair a politician's public duties.
https://www.facebook.com/60minutes/posts/dozens-of-police-te...
Germany – Ricarda Lang insult investigation (2024–2025): A citizen was investigated (potential fine/jail) for an online post calling politician Ricarda Lang "fat," charged as criminal insult under Section 185 protecting officials from derogatory remarks.
https://nypost.com/2025/02/21/world-news/germans-cant-insult...
Robert Habeck was NOT arrested, he and his friends were investigated in the broader case of neo-nazi propaganda which they were spreading as well. Unless you consider neo-nazi freedom of speech, of course.
The Pinocchio case meant exactly one official letter sent to that guy, lol "arrests". The investigation was dropped and everybody criticized the investigation.
Ricarda Lang case was a request to the well-known network Gab to identify who insulted the politician, because in Germany insults are a crime. Maybe in the US insulting is a popular free speech pastime, but this is not US. Gab refused to identify the person and that was that.
So, again, I can see when we are spreading lies to support some ideology, but they are just that: lies.
Re the other cases: in a good democracy, insulting politicians should not be a crime and there should be no investigations for someone insulting a politician.
That is your POV. I fear that democracy erodes when there's insults, belittling, ... instead of exchange of arguments and the contest of ideas. Because at some point insults turn into ugly actions. Whether it's Charlie Kirk or Melissa Hortman.
There is a reason the founding fathers put freedom of speech as the first amendment
Insults should absolutely be protected speech.
In countries that make insulting politicians illegal, all a politician has to do to become a dictator is say that speech criticizing them/their behavior is insulting and therefore illegal
Would you like if Trump arrested anybody who insulted him?
I mean that's why it's called free speech. Probably the most famous case the ACLU (American Civil Liberties Union) fought for was to make sure Nazi's could hold a rally and march through Skokie, Illinois, USA an area famous for being predominantly Jewish.
> Multiple citizens faced police raids, investigations, fines, or suspended sentences (jail risk if violated) for online posts calling Green politician Robert Habeck derogatory names like "idiot" or "moron," or sharing mocking memes [...]
The police raids were done because of the posted Nazi images, NOT because of the Habeck insults.
And one side started it by killing 1,200 civilians and kidnapping 250. Which doesn't justify genocide. But it does factor into the response when one side is governed by a death cult that has no problem letting scores of their own civilians die if it furthers their cause.
In the 1947 Palestinian civil war, and they have been attacking and trying to destroy Israel ever since?
Also look at what they did in Egypt, Lebanon, Jordan.
Palestinians, Hamas and Hezbollah are not the good guys here. Not saying Israel is all good either, but let’s put it this way. Where would you want your wife or children to live if given the chance?
You can live as a Muslim in Israel, you can’t live as a Christian or Jew in Palestine.
1) Israel attacked Arab Palestine and the neighboring Arab states first, in plan Dalet.
2) Christians and Jews absolutely can live in Palestine. They were afforded that in the Ottoman empire (the Dhimmi) and they are afforded that now.
3) Muslims do not get to govern themselves in Israel. Every other religions can choose their own representatives in official matter, but Islam gets a token person selected by the Israeli state.
> 2) Christians and Jews absolutely can live in Palestine. They were afforded that in the Ottoman empire (the Dhimmi) and they are afforded that now.
Add to this, Amira Haas (Jewish, anti-Zionist Haaretz journalist) lives in Ramallah. There was also a Palestinian man who converted to Judaism living in the West Bank, but he was killed... by the IDF: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Killing_of_David_Ben_Avraham
This is so disingenuous, the poster clearly has no clue what he's talking about.
Local Christian communities have been living amongst Muslims there for centuries and continue to do so under Israeli occupation. About 25% of the population that calls themselves Palestinian are Christians, and are treated the same as Muslims by Israel, that is as second class citizens at best inside the Green Line and targets for ethnic cleansing outside of it.
Scores of foreign Christians and Jews go stay in Palestinian towns and villages in the West Bank to provide some amount of protection to the Palestinian Muslims and Christians there. They are encouraged and welcome to come stay among them by Palestinians.
Right. Thats what happened in Jordan and Lebanon right? Damour massacre in Lebanon for example? Black September and Jordan civil war?
Christian percentage went from 10% to 1% in Palestine.
Parliament has 120 seats, 15 of which for Muslims, and Muslims have full rights.
Sorry, ya’ll are delusional if you think you have better life and more rights as a Christian in a Muslim country than a Muslim in Israel or a European country.
No they don't. Israel is a state with discrimination against non-Jews baked into its laws, with a couple of clever facades that don't stand up to basic scrutiny.
>Christian percentage went from 10% to 1% in Palestine.
And the decades of ethnic cleansing by Israel against Arabs, both Christians and Muslims, has nothing to do with this? How come those communities were there for millennia and started disappearing? What major event in the last 100 years in the region of Palestine led to the flight of Palestinian Christians?
>Christian Palestinians who are citizens of Israel suffer from the same widespread official and unofficial discrimination that other non-Jews do, in everything from land ownership and housing to employment and family reunification rights. [1]
The difference between Hamas and Israel is the magnitude of effect. And that for most of the war one party had much more capacity to change its course than the other. But either way criticism of the semantics and focus of media just seems irrelevant and overly abstract. It focuses too much on the group and not enough on the individual. Which drags the argument into the realm that ethno-nationalists of either side occupy. Death is always a tragedy and unnecessary killing is immoral. Anything deeper than that stinks of ignorance and is grotesque.
You're correct, it was yet another genocide carried out by the Israeli state, as usual.
> In an interview with Politico in 2023, former Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert said that "In the last 15 years, Israel did everything to downgrade the Palestinian Authority and to boost Hamas." He continued saying "Gaza was on the brink of collapse because they had no resources, they had no money, and the PA refused to give Hamas any money. Bibi saved them. Bibi made a deal with Qatar and they started to move millions and millions of dollars to Gaza." At a Likud party conference in 2019, Benjamin Netanyahu said:
> “Anyone who wants to thwart the establishment of a Palestinian state has to support bolstering Hamas and transferring money to Hamas … This is part of our strategy – to isolate the Palestinians in Gaza from the Palestinians in the West Bank.” - Benjamin Netanyahu
> Gershon Hacohen, former commander of the 7th Armored Brigade and an associate of Benjamin Netanyahu, said in 2019 in an interview:
> “Netanyahu’s strategy is to prevent the option of two states, so he is turning Hamas into his closest partner. Openly Hamas is an enemy. Covertly, it’s an ally.”
Swiss Policy Research has excellent documentation on the promotion of Hamas in Gaza by Israel:
Even then, Gaza is far more dense than Grozny; almost certainly the Grozny campaign was conducted with far more deliberate indifference to any concept of morality.
What Israel is doing is genocide. The International Association of Genocide Scholars say so https://genocidescholars.org/wp-content/uploads/2025/08/IAGS... . Is there anyone who is arguing, in ”good faith” as you say, that the atrocities of October 7th were a genocide?
I went to the USA a few months ago and was pulled aside and questioned (I have no idea why)
and when I told them I didn't have facebook they looked at me like I was mad. They asked "why not" and I told them I was ideologically opposed to it, because I believe it encourages narcissism. They acted like I was a criminal.
I found this enourmously funny and kept laughing at them insisting there was something suspicious about me not having a facebook account, which of course made me look even more guilty in their eyes.
In the end they got frustrated and just let me through, but there was an underlying and quite theatening tone which I felt was like a presumption of guilt, I laughed at the time at the absurdity of the situation, just because I wasnt expecting it, but on deeper reflection its pretty disturbing.
But that is a bit of the issue: I see people use 'young' and 'old' platforms and it's all the same: stuck to the phone scrolling through exactly the same slob, ai or human, hours on end. Can't say I even find LinkedIn any different (which I also do not use, but colleagues send me stuff sometimes). So I want no part of any of them. What do I say then? Because I feel they will think I am some sort of unabomber haxor dude coming to overthrow the gov because I am not a happy insta scroller. Which is absolutely insane. Maybe I will hang a big cross around my neck and carry a bible at all times and no phone. Same purpose, so probably works.
You demur Facebook, they ask “what do you use then?” which is a more open-ended question with more flexible rooms to spin an answer. Making a stand by saying “I don’t use Facebook because I’m a techno-woke e-Luddite” closes all that.
That sounds like what Varoufakis planned to implement in Greece in case of a default in 2015.
” What we planned to do was this. There's the tax office website, as in Britain and everywhere else, where citizens (taxpayers accessing the website) use their tax identification number and transfer money from their bank account to their tax identification number via online banking to pay VAT, income tax, and so on. We were planning to surreptitiously create reserve accounts linked to each tax identification number without notifying anyone, simply so that this system would operate in secret. With the push of a button, we could assign PIN numbers to the holders of the tax identification numbers (taxpayers). For example, in a case where the state owed a pharmaceutical company one million euros for medicines purchased on behalf of the National Health Service, we could immediately make a transfer to the reserve account corresponding to the pharmaceutical company's tax identification number and provide them with a PIN number. They could use it as a kind of parallel payment mechanism to transfer any portion of those digital funds they wanted to any tax identification number they owed money to. Or even to use it to make tax payments.”
Revolut! There are also pretty high referral bonus (around 80 dollars per referral where I come from). You can ”charge” it using Apple Pay or Google Pay, and it’s very convenient.
You realise that killing people without even identifying them first, and even going as far as invading a foreign country is not a solution in any shape or form. It’s not a ”something”.
If the market for fentanyl is there, the drug will come. And one of the reasons the market became so big because of all the legal opioid drugs being so broadly prescribed.
When did this happen?
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